spring=force or weight?

[Flywheel]

I'm back, I havn't posted in a long time, I just had a lot of other stuff to do. I just had this idea let say a wheel was to spin clockwise. if a contractionion spring was hanging down with a weight on it. Let's say the weight weighs 40 pounds, and the spring pulls up with 39 pounds of force, which = 1 pound (if you somehow attach the spring where weight and frce was distribued throughout the wheel. When the whell made a 180 degree turn, the spring is now on the bottom, and the weight is now pushing down with 40 pounds of force, without the spring giving or taking any force or weight. Could this be incorporated in the wheel somehow? (soory if you guys don't understand what I'm writing right now, it's late where I am and I'm not thinking too well, I might post a picture later.

[Gravmaster2000]

Springs can be used to 'bias' off a weight. As you describe it in your post, the weight would 'weigh' 1 pound at the top and nothing at the bottom? is that right? If the spring was a long one, it could be done, what do you have in mind? I have found springs to be useful-they can act like a weight to provide force OR balance mass, and since they have little mass themselves, can store energy quickly.

[Mr.Umez]

If the weight isn't stretching or compressing the spring even more (if it isn't still moving), then the force of the spring will be equal to it, not one pound off. That's what I am seeing in your description.

[rlortie]

I Know little to nothing of WM2D
messing around with no known factors I connected two wheels of random size with the spring symbol. Surprised at the results as I not only got counter rotation between driver and driven but also accelerated rotation of driven.

I cannot attach the file as I am told it is too big.

Ralph

[jim_mich]

Ralph, make a small change such as adding and deleting a single point just before you save the wm2d file and it will be verey small.

When you run a wm2d program the file 'grows' as it records each step of movement. Then when you save the file all of that data record gets saved with the file. This makes the file quite large (and too big to post). If you make a change to the model such as adding or deleting something then wm2d erases the current movement record. You can then immediately save the file it will be saved with a blank movement record and the file will be quite small. When others run it wm2d will rebuild the movement record just like you observed.

[rlortie]

Jim_Mich,

Thank you, I will add an anchor point or something outside the unit and try posting again.

Ralph

[jim_mich]

Surprised at the results as I not only got counter rotation between driver and driven but also accelerated rotation of driven.

Uhhh... You say that you know little to nothing of WM2D. I assume that you're aware of the motor on the left circle? The spring interconnects the two circles causing the left motor driven circle to drive the rights circle in random directions.

[rlortie]

Jim_Mich,

Yes I do know a motor when I see the symbol, and yes I knew that I put it there. and then I clicked on the spring and dragged it free hand from one to the other in hopes of having the connecting point 180 degrees from each other.

The two circles on not identical nor is the spring connections. What fascinated me was that the driven would not only reverse directions but also accelerate in the process. The longer you watch it the more interesting it gets.

And you did send me basic instructions on getting started with WM2D!

Thanks again

Ralph

[1712]

Ralph.

Interesting that you would spend so much $$ on WM2D in order to save files, then not know much about using it.
LOL.

Scott, you're on...

Drum Roll please..................


WarHammer

[rlortie]

1712,

As usual your pessimistic form is in it's finest of shapes.

Have you never heard of shareware? or free licensing for obsolete programs. It just so happens that I do have a licence and registration for WM2D and I did not pay for it. That does not mean I have it illegally

I have a lot on my computer that was bought and paid for with US tax dollars on the shareware programs for the US Army Corps of Engineers, allowing me access to work related files.

I also have or had free use of Alibre and e-machine shop. That does not mean that I am proficient with any of them.

What does this have to do with gravity wheels and when are you going to dry up and blow away?

Ralph

[rlortie]

To get back on topic, What I was attempting to do is as follows:

Bessler's depiction of his pendulums are always shown in a counter position. I was attempting to show how through the leverage from axle crank, the swinging could be driving one in the opposite direction.

I started with two circles and first tried a rigid rod such as seen on a steam locomotive connecting a series of drive wheels. I did not have good results in getting one to drive opposite the motor powered driver.

I then changed the rigid rod for a spring. You know the results. I still believe with a little tweaking that it is possible to have a counter rotating device without the use of gears. And that is what I am after. A pendulum driven reversing mechanism.

Ralph

[jim_mich]

Weights (circles) attached to springs are much like pendulums in that they will cause the weight to oscillate. If the natural oscillation frequency of the circles and springs matches the rotation speed of motor driven circle then the two can rotate in opposite directions if they get out of phase or same direction if in phase.

[Gregory]

I still believe with a little tweaking that it is possible to have a counter rotating device without the use of gears. And that is what I am after. A pendulum driven reversing mechanism.

Ralph

Yes Ralph, I think that is very possible. Just finished the first tests of Bessler's T-type pendulum, I'm planning to simulate something similar you described with two pendulums counter swinging. I've just began to feel how gears can be replaced with other linkages in most of the cases. The mechanism don't work exactly the same with gears as with linkages, but can be tuned very close in results.

Such a pendulum system also can drive a wheel (until it runs continously or runs down to a stop), and still can be combined with Bessler's ratchet pendulum drawing to make another wheel or something else to spin.

BTW, the T-type pendulum is an intersting one. Swings faster than a normal pendulum with the same properties, and also swings down faster.

Greg

[jim_mich]

Swings faster than a normal pendulum with the same properties,

A T-type pendulum would not have the same "properties" as a normal pendulum. A pendulum's swing is determined (when in earth's gravity) by only one property, its radius (or center) of gyration. The weights on the T-bar affect the radius of gyration and thus affect how it swings. If two pendulums have the same radius of gyration then they will swing the same.

[Gregory]

Ahh yes, you are right Jim_mich. I was false there... I realized now, that is irrelevant. Only depends on which pendulum compared to which. I only simulated one which swings faster than a normal pendulum with the same diameter but without the weights on the two sides of the T.

Thanks to correct my mistake!