John C. & Patrick

[Jeff1]

John and Patrick,

What was Besslers statement: "If I arrange to have just one cross-bar in the machine, it revolves very slowly, just as if it can hardly turn itself at all, but, on the contrary, when I arrange several bars, pulleys and weights, the machine can revolve much faster, and throw Wagner's calculations clean out of the window!" referring to? Was he talking about the pulley arrangment outside the wheel, or could he have been talking about something inside the covered area?

Thanks,

Jeff

[Patrick]

Hi Jeff;
I think he was referring to what was inside the wheel. John has made an excellent proposed recreation of the general structure of the wheel in Chapter 12 of his book. Also, please see my latest posting: Bessler wheel theory part 12.
--Patrick

[John Collins]

I agree with Patrick, Jeff. I'm certain that he was talking about what was inside his wheel. The same thorny problem of translation and what cross-bar means applies here too. The original says "creuze, zuge" like that with the commar in between (and I haven't got an umlaut for the 'u' in zuge.) I translated it as cross-bar but literally it means cross, and then tension/stretch/tug/pull/ etc.

John

[Michael]

Patrick-John,

Patrich, possible you can post your theory without having to download it?

John, Anyway I could get a copy of said book by mailing you a check? At the moment it is next to immpossible for me to download anything. Also-I thought you said a little wheile ago you didn't think the machine used pulleys or strings.

Michael

[Patrick]

Michael;
I cannot post it as a message; the file size is too large. It is in Word format so it should be accessible by most users. Hopefully you can get someone to download for you. If you send me your email address, I can send to you as an attachment.
--Patrick

[Trev]

tension/stretch/tug/pull/

SPRING?

[Michael]

>Spring...

Or bow, as in the jack fires.

[grim]

Considering he made his whole family and maid swear a "terrible oath" basically condemning them to the Lower Regions if they revealed anything about the device, I seriously doubt that someone so determined to have secrecy as Bessler was would reveal anything on paper, either.

The time my be right to try and determine if there as a way to fake the wheel, not including cranking by hand. In that type of "reverse research", the true mechanism might be revealed by accident.


grim

[John Collins]

John, Anyway I could get a copy of said book by mailing you a check? At the moment it is next to immpossible for me to download anything. Also-I thought you said a little wheile ago you didn't think the machine used pulleys or strings.

Michael, I don't think the machine was operated by pulleys or strings but I think that the "Creuze" means cross-bar and was used as a kind of mini or sub-axle to suspend the mechanisms, which operated the weights, on. So he could add more cross-bars or axles and have more mechanisms to increase power, but there was a minimum number pf them below which the wheel would not turn.

Yes you can send me a check, email me with your proposals, jcollins@free-energy.co.uk.

John

[Patrick]

Hi Grim;
Long time no see!

I seriously doubt that someone so determined to have secrecy as Bessler was would reveal anything on paper

I think it is important to remember something about: Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum; (John can correct me if I am wrong). This section of text was written by Bessler with the intent of publishing it with the entire explanation of his PM wheel after he had gotten paid. In other words, this introductory description he gives should be taken as a genuine description of what he had created. Of course there is no way to be absolutely certain that he was sincere at this point, if ever; but apparently it was only after his negotiations to sell his wheel broke down & his ex-maid turned on him that he destroyed his complete written accounts that "proved" the working details of the wheel.
--Patrick

[Jeff]

John & Patrick,

Have you seen those words : "creuze, zuge" together or singularly, anywhere else in Bessler's writings - perhaps somewhere in Maschinen Tractate?

Jeff

[John Collins]

Have you seen those words : "creuze, zuge" together or singularly, anywhere else in Bessler's writings - perhaps somewhere in Maschinen Tractate?

No Jeff, I haven't.

John.

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Jeff,
I have only seen 'Kreuz-zuege' on Felix Würth's machines, also explained from Prof. Evert. It is more a over-cross. Hope this helps you.

[Patrick]

Hi Jeff;
Nope. You may want to ask Ovyyus.

[ovyyus]

Hi Jeff,

Sorry, I've not seen it repeated anywhere either.