I have a working device.

[TommyK]

Over the past few months I have tried contacting several members of this board (DarviaP ring a bell?) using a pseudonym in hopes to get a working device sold.
I have posted an edit of an MT that would help show the motion and have even given hints on squares.
I am not interested in fame, book deals, news-rights or anything other than cold hard cash.

I know that many have claimed to have a working device before and none have proven it but I can.
Will it do useful work? No, not at this size but scaled up it will.
So now you are thinking why not go for the Randi prize right?
Well an associate and I have applied for the Randi prize but after Randi and his people (Kramer) realized we were for real he gave us the most difficult run around and finally angrily disqualified us. (He is an arrogant old man to say the least.) I have all his letters and emails to prove this as well as my notarized application to the foundation and their initial acceptance of the challenge.

The bottom line here is that I am willing to present this device to a respected member of the board (Scott, J.C. Jim-M, Jonathan) in an encased form and prove that it can self run, become stopped by force released and resume itÂ’s rotation using nothing other then the parts pictured. After itÂ’s rotation has been viewed and itÂ’s self rotation is proven I will disassemble the unit from within itÂ’s casing and will remove only the parts you see enclosed in the photo proving that nothing other then the parts pictured provide for the rotation.
The willing respected member (who will be considered my Karl) can contact me via email and I will forward them my phone number where they may contact me to discuss it further. I am willing to make arrangements to travel to whomever elects to assist at my expense.

Once the device is proven to be an actual device of self rotation I will entertain a serious cash offer to relinquish this technology
.

[coylo]

Congratulations,
or should I say......................................YOU B@$TARD!

No seriously, well done.
I'm waiting on a few parts to arrive myself to finish a prototype that I expect should work and it should have a bit of power and be quite practical.
I'd expect that there are a few working models out there (what ever happened to that guy Vandugegs?) and what it will boil down to is....Who's machine is the most powerful, the most practical....and who is going to go first?

[rounder]

very interesting i hope it does work as you say it does,all things are possible when you apply the right concept to the the right idea. i would like to know how many rotations it does a minute tho, or how much force the wheel has when in rotation. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX OR GET INSIDE IT

[TommyK]

Rounder,

I will not disclose anything more about the device until I have proven the principle and have a serious buyer.

coylo,

A lil bit.

[rounder]

well i guess if you dont want to give that info out its your choice but i would like to know if your wheel is running rate know and whats the longest period of time you have left it running.

[TommyK]

It has run for days (of course with clacking noise) needs work.

Clack/hit/flip/bang and repeat. 50 RPM?

I want to be fair but I don't want to say more.

[jim_mich]

So TommyK, you are the DarviaP who I've talked with via email a few times. I wonder why you chose to hide behind a pseudonym, but does not matter. If my understanding is correct you are asking for a lot of money in return for disclosing knowledge of a working self turning wheel that puts out only a small amount of energy.

The problem is that only the inventor of an idea can patent that idea. And without patent protection anyone can make use of the idea. So if someone pays you a million dollars just to see how you wheel works, then what is that person to do with the idea? As soon as the knowledge of how the wheel works becomes public anyone can make the wheel. The poor guy who paid up front is like the horse who starts the race a quarter mile back. It seems you are trying to take the same route that Bessler took.

As I've said in my emails to you "the farther along the path, the more valuable the idea." And one step along the path is patent protection. But it comes with a double edged sword. You run the risk of bringing those in power down upon your head and having your invention suppressed. So the patent must be filed just a few days before you disclose the idea for the whole world to see. If the patent makes it through the patenting process and gets issued you have won and can ask almost any price for your idea. If the patent application is turned down and you have displayed a number of fully disclosed working models, the patent office will look foolish for not granting the patent. You have recourse in the courts and through public opinion. And if the patent office tries to issue an order to suppress you will have already let the cat out of the bag and it will have grown into a roaring tiger which they can not contain. At that point you can ask for your million dollar, or ten million, or maybe more?

Now why do you resist applying for a patent? Probably it is the cost. A patent will cost you about the price of a new automobile. And maybe another few thousand to make some working models as backup insurance. But a twenty or thirty thousand dollar investment in return for an almost sure bet winning muli-million dollar lottery ticket is a reasonable risk.

You have told me that you would like help finding a manufacturer to sell your wheel to. But I will tell you right now point blank that you are not yet in a position along the path to sell your wheel. The reason is that you don't yet have complete legal control of your idea. Its like having a car without the title. You will not find a serious buyer until you have complete legal control of your invention. It is the legal control of your invention that has the most value. Have that and you will be in a position of power and can ask for a million plus royalties.

Now maybe you don't have the money for a patent? That should not stop you. What you need to do is find partners. Notice I did not say find a manufacturer. Partners would be those who you feel you can trust. After signing the appropriate aggreement papers, you would disclose the idea to those partners. You would not ask those partners for money for yourself, they would not ask money from you. Those partners would then spend time and money to help you get a patent and implement The Plan and help bring a working wheel into the world. At that point you and your partners will receive fame and fortune. If you don't want the fame then let the partners handle that part.

[ovyyus]

What the heck. I'll offer to be your 'Karl' - if I qualify.

EDIT: I withdraw in haste.

[MrTim]

It has run for days (of course with clacking noise) needs work.
Clack/hit/flip/bang and repeat. 50 RPM?
I want to be fair but I don't want to say more.

Then that means..... you can't tell us:
> The dimensions of your wheel?
> It's total weight (or mass)?
> How many mechanisms you have within (1? 8?)?
> Is it uni- or bi- directional? (wow, that sounded kind of dirty!)
> How many revolutions it takes from starting to reach maximum speed?

Just curious.....

[TommyK]

Jim,

I am not worried about suppression, I am worried about having the idea stolen without due credit.
I tried to go the patent route but it will not work unless I disclose the entire idea which I am not willing to give to the patent office. I already have 2 provisional patents that will expire in a few months but I don't feel that they protect the idea so I am willing to sell out and leave the patent risk/process to the buyer. The agreement would be a contract with the asking price being placed in escrow and paid when device is proven to be self running.


MrTim,

> The dimensions of your wheel?

It is not a wheel. I would classify it more as a propeller type of device.

> It's total weight (or mass)?

It's not very heavy as shown in picture. 5 Lbs maybe. When attached to a flywheel it is then heavier because of the flywheels weight.

> How many mechanisms you have within (1? 8?)?

What you see pictured is what moves. Even the axle is there.

> Is it uni- or bi- directional?

One way.

> How many revolutions it takes from starting to reach maximum speed?

1-2 depending if it is released from vertical or horizontal position.

[jim_mich]

TommyK, when your provisional patents expire in a few months you will not have any protection with them. Also if you did not fully disclose the idea in the provisional patent (or any subsequent patents) then the part you did not disclose would not be covered by the patent and for all practicle purposes the patent is useless, a waste of your money. If you are serious and for real, then you must agree to assist whomever you choose to work with in obtaining a patent with you named as the inventor. I'm not a patent attorney and am not qualified to give legal advice, so it is best to consult your own patent attorney.

Now could you clarify a few things? You say it is not a wheel, but I assume that part of it is a continuously rotating wheel? Can you identify the object in the lower right corner of your picture, is it a rubber band?

Could you spell out very precisely exactly what and how your proposal is for any potential "Karl"? Mostly how much of your device is to be disclosed and at what time or under what conditions? And at what point is full disclosure made?

[etjoe]

Wow...congratulations!!!
Just one question; how many years did you spend on getting to this point?

-e

[Oxygon]

;\

I hope you did build a working model...

But I am not going to jump for joy just yet, like the rest of you...

How many times do we hear this stuff... people really.

And I am not trying to be pessimistic, I am being realistic.

[TommyK]

Jim,

I am not interested in going any further with a patent, as I said that will be up to the buyer.

Correct, that is a rubber band in the lower corner.

About the "Karl" I will bring the device to one of the respected members and will demonstrate it's self motion. At the demonstration I will assemble the device in the members presence then disassemble the device from within the drum that I will enclose it in to show that nothing other then these parts cause the rotation. I will not disclose it's arrangement to any one other then the buyer.

I am hoping that after this member verifies that the device is for real that a financial backer will view the findings here on besslerwheel.com and contact me via email.

[coylo]

If the man says he has built a working model, then he's built a working model.

Interesting that Randi story, I had a feeling that he would do something like this.