I have a working device.

[scott]

Well hello TommyK, welcome back...

All I can say is that I hope your claims are true. If they are, then congratulations! Of course I would be happy to help out in any way I can.

Other than that, the proof is in the pudding!

-Scott

[Michael]

You want money Tommy...? I am willing to bet you 100 dollars you device is a fake and is not Perpetual Motion. You say Randi gave you the run around? B.S. ! The only way that would happen is if you were playing with him and didn't adhere to his simple request/s. So I ask you to prove it. Post up your letters. Didn't Patrick PROVE that you were in fact that teck stuff? Maybe we should ask Patrick to post up his letters he got to you where you admitted that...?
M.O.

[jim_mich]

TommyK, if I understand you right the respected member will NOT get to see the inside of the wheel? You want to show that when you insert the parts which you have already shown in your picture, that the wheel self rotates. You want to use the members respectability to validate that the wheel is genuine, without that member really knowing if he/she is being scammed as you could hide a small motor inside? Now please be assured I am not saying you are scamming, but the conditions must be such as to avoid any possibility of fraud. If I go looking for a buyer and he asks me to prove that your wheel really works, what do I tell him? What proof can I give him.

Concerning a patent, will you allow the buyer to apply for a patent in your name? You would need to sign the patent application papers, etc.

[TommyK]

Scott,

I emailed you about this (indirectly) a few weeks ago and will again to give you some detail.

Mike,

I'm not going to waste my time and argue with you.

Jim,

I will assemble and disassemble in the nude if need be.

[Michael]

No argument, it's quite simple "Tommy". You mentioned it, post up your Randi letters. I'll make sure he sees them so he can comment. You won't though. Ahem...an idiotic way in how you avoided Jims comments.

Tired of con men,
Michael

[Oxygon]

People, people.... settle down...

TommyK should know that you will be attacked for posting like this...

"Posts" like this are a dime a dozen, If you have it or you dont...

learn from others, and release it in full. the first time... don't bleed the truth.

[jim_mich]

Tommy,

You must have mis-understood my concern. Does the respected member get to see the inside of the wheel enclosure to make sure it is empty of any powering device after you take the working parts out? In other words does he/she get to see inside the wheel? Without full disclosure to someone somewhere someplace sometime any exchange of money can not take place. I ask a simple question...

What is your full complete proposal including details of how, where, when, and what safeguards so everyone involved is protected so it is impossible for anyone to get scammed?

Many of the pages on my website list my postal address and my phone number is listed in the phone book. You can look me up and phone me anytime you want. But I prefer discussions right here out in the open where everyone can see.

You seem to beat around the bush and half answer using stupid remarks. If you are serious then ACT serious!!!

[Trev]

Congratulations Tommy K!
Come to think of it your story sounds rather familliar...
Don't go up any windmills.

Trev :)

[ovyyus]

Hi TommyK,

My understanding is that you will not disclose to anyone except 'the buyer'. Unlike Bessler's 'Karl', TommyK's 'Karl' will not have the opportunity to actually witness the mechanism in operation inside the wheel.

It doesn't matter who sits in for 'Karl' on this. Respected or not, it won't make any difference. I certainly wouldn't like to be your Karl stand in, there's no point to it.

I think you're wasting your time going down this path. Your 'Karl' will be laughed at when he offers his opinion on your invention while acknowledging that he's actually seen nothing of it in operation. If these were similar conditions to those presented to Randi, then I'm not surprised he's refused to get involved.

I think you need to come up with a better plan. IMO, sooner or later you will have to allow disclosure with others before a potential buyer might begin to take you seriously. In my experience small groups of individuals working under a good non-disclosure agreement and all proclaiming the same thing can be a powerful force. Good luck.

[rounder]

tommy your idea is safe becase of this site the date is posted and we here all know this is your idea and these are the parts that run your idea. i do not think you will find a buyer for it tho becuse people do not buy what they can not see. anyways tho job well done if it works how you say it works. since perpetual motion breaks the laws of physics as most people in that profesion would say i would recomend that you go to a university a show some respected teachers of physics your idea , i would first make them sign a waver of course , but if they see it in motion and determine that it can only be that'' perpetual motion'' then you will have there word in signature that your device is just that. this would make your devise way more ceditable and you would still reap the rewards of your accomplishment. '' best of luck bro''

[jim_mich]

Last night I had a long talk with TommyK about his wheel. I'd like to clear up some posible confusion. What he shows in his picture is the whole complete mechanism which bolts onto a flywheel. The center hole is for the axle, the other two holes for attaching to the flywheel. See post http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... ?p=970#970 for an old picture of the flywheel. If I undertand him right the flywheel might not be needed. I assume it smooths the action as in an internal compustion engine.

What he does not show and wants to keep secret and disclose only to a buyer is the configuration of HOW he attaches and uses the angle brackets, springs and the rubberband.

I can see how his wheel might work. I need some time to analize it.

[ovyyus]

Hi Jim,

Reading back over TommyK's previous posts...

Place a single speed bike with a freewheel upside down. Now face the bike from the side. Secure a 1 pound weight to the outer rim of the drive wheel.(Required for centrifugal driving force) Secure a 1 pound weight on the pedal that you are facing and place pedal in the 3'oclock position. Release to the 9'oclock position and repeat. After the first few revolutions only a very small amount of energy is required to run the wheel.

...and then...

This is how my wheel works except that the pedals are removed and replaced with a weighted pendulum which when engaged from the 3'oclock position swings out to the 9'oclock position then returns to be caught by a spring catch. Attached to the rim of the wheel are 2 tabs. After the wheel makes one 3 quarter revolution the first tab releases the hair trigger spring catch to start the drive again. The second tab following one quarter behind the first tab resets the hair trigger catch. After trying this experiment you will realize that additional wheels added in areas will increase the inertia propeller.

...followed by...

Everything I've stated gives you the working wheel, short of me building it for you or placing a video of the wheel running on this site.
Please try to understand from what I have already posted. I am not trying to be a trickster or post in riddles, but I am not sure that this is the place for me to disclose my wheel. Not that I seek fame for my wheel but mainly for the fact that I am trying to share an idea," that works", with those who are not looking to catch a score from anothers work.

This is all very odd. On the one hand TommyK provided the above details back in December 2003. On the other hand he now says he will only disclose his secret to 'the buyer' and presents us with a photo of, supposedly, the complete working parts list of his device. I'm confused. Something just doesn't add up. What does TommyK want?

[jim_mich]

ovyyus,
Maybe they are two different wheels? Maybe the first didn't work so he went to plan B. I confined my conversation with him to just his current wheel. His overall concept seems to make sense. If the wheel and weights are turning the weights can produce a rotating torque. But I need to verify if gravity can keep the weights swinging. From his picture I know the dimensions of all the components. I know where the angle brackets mount. I think I know where the springs mount. The orientation of the brackets is unknown and would need trial and error or computer simulation.
TommyK has already said his wheel bangs and clacks. So the weights hit each other.

TommyK wants fame and fortune without the fame.

[ovyyus]

Hi Jim,

What I really don't understand is that by posting a photo of the 'complete' parts that bolt onto a flywheel, hasn't he given it away? There doesn't seem to be that many ways to interconnect those few components. You say that you know the dimensions of all the components, you know where the angle brackets mount and you say you think you know where the springs mount. How hard could it be?

How can TommyK give away all this detail and yet be certain that no one will simply put the pieces together? I'm sorry, it just doesn't make sense to me. Either TommyK is taking us for a ride or he wants to disclose his device or there is more to it than we are led to believe.

Is this the same device as the one claimed before Christmas? He said back then that he had a working wheel and that he presented enough info for someone to build it. Was that not true? Perhaps only TommyK can clear up the confusion.

I want to believe.

[Neo]

ovyyus,

Your right. Observe in te last post by TommyK their is a picture of the flywheel, no visable holes are seen on this flywheel remotely similar to the new mechanism.