Water Power

[Jon J Hutton]

This is the first time I have decided to go outside of the general discussion forum but I have a question that has been eating at me for a while that maybe some one could answer.

Where I live a gallon of gasoline costs around $3.00 per gallon. For that same price you could buy or pump about 230 gallons of water that would weigh about 1924 pounds to a high elevation and use it to belt power a generator and still have the water left over. Am I off in my math or why aren't we using water in that way.

[Vic Hays]

230 gallons of water at high elevation does not fit in my car and that is the only thing I buy gasoline for. There are not even many electric cars available that can plug into the grid.

[james kelly]

Jon, You have to figure replacement cost on your pump engine as part of the cost. and of course the cost of the equipment. figure in ALL costs before coming to a conclusion. jim

[Jon J Hutton]

Ok...Ok. I deserve the jokes..it does sound like an immature question, but, let me explain a bit more.

The average rain falling on the roof of an average size house produces over 8000 pounds of water an hour falling 9 feet. That turns into a good amount of wasted energy. If besslers drawings 102, 103 could be miniaturized to fit into the guttering system of a house then it might produce some energy for at least a few lightbulbs or more. Who wouldn't buy something that would earn/save you money.

I agree james but the average city water pressure is more than enough to water hose, or pipe the water to a good height.

[Fletcher]

You'd install a mini turbine in the down pipe perhaps, then charge a bank of batteries. A screw auger might do well.

As an aside I am painting the exterior of my house at the moment. I got sick & tired of washing out the roller all the time so decided to make a quick water powered centrifical roller cleaner. Used a 10 litre plastic container & cut away a portion of it. Then I installed a brass axle across its length. Then I made two bungs for the ends of the roller to press fit into & ran the axle thru them so that it was horizontally suspended in the container. I attached a mini impeller to one of the bungs. Hey presto, run the tap water onto the impeller & it spins the roller. CF takes the paint away from the roller & mixes with the water, cleaning it. Best thing is I can now have a cup of coffee & the jobs done. Necessity the mother of all invention.

Something along similar lines Jon. For a while I have contemplated (not seriously though) digging up the city's water main at my gate & installing a mini turbine in their line. There are quite a few more households further down my cul-de-sac so there would always be water pressure & a constant flow of water. Then I could use the city's pumping pressure (at their cost) to turn my turbine & generate a little extra household wattage.

If I just wasn't so honest ;)

[Jon J Hutton]

We need more honest people.

Sounds like some great ideas. Just think how many water towers there are across the land that could be producing electricity from the drop in water.

Most houses do not need all the pressure that they have. It would be interesting to see an inline mini water turbine that would connect to the inline of your water tap to your property that would produce some elec for your house.

[Trev]

Jon, I know some hydro electric stations use their excess night time power to pump water up into reservoirs, to be released back through a turbine at times of high power demand.

Trev.

[jim_mich]

8000 pounds of water is about 128 gallons.
Suppose this fell during a 64 minute long rain storm.
This would then produce 2 gallons per minute flow.
Suppose we assume a 10 foot drop from the edge of the roof.
My Machinery's Handbook tells me 1 gallon per minute dropping 10 feet at 85% efficiency would produce about 0.0161 horse power.
We have double that volume so we should get about 0.0322 HP which is about 24 watts.
You might be able to light a very small porch light during the rain storm.

[Jon J Hutton]

Hmmm. I guess you rained on my parade. Sorry couldn't resist Jim. So we see why this has never been done.

Jim what do you think of the turbin idea for the main water line into a house?

[Fletcher]

Jon .. it would only work while there was flow. So every time you ran the bath or turned on a tap you'd get some electricty. Tiny, unless you live in a hostel or commune etc. Not much produced from my 3 person household, I could shower more often according to my wife ;)

Tapping stormwater might be more productive as that's usually gravity fed & comes to a collection point where there would be bigger volumes & more regular flow.

I was thinking more of the down pipe scenario with a vertical auger. Run a shaft thru the top & place an impeller on top to catch the wind as well. Combined might light half a porch bulb.

[rlortie]

Jon,

Most houses do not need all the pressure that they have. It would be interesting to see an inline mini water turbine that would connect to the inline of your water tap to your property that would produce some elec for your house.

Most of us city dwellers supplied by a public utility have such a mini turbine in our lines. It is called a "water usage meter", and frankly I wished mine did not spin so fast. My sewer fee is also based on how much that little (3/4"" turbine spins.

As for the vertical auger, some months back we talked of an updraft airfoil type that I introduced on one of (whisper) Ken,s threads.

The idea was to create an updraft in a hill or mountain with an inverted air foil mounted above a shaft with a turbine in it.

Also discussed was how Grand Coulee dam uses generators during off peak hours to pump the water back up into the resevoir for irrigation and reserve power usage.

Grand Coulee Dam, concrete gravity dam, east central Washington, on the Columbia River. Built during 1933 to 1942 as part of the Columbia Basin Irrigation Project, it is 168 m (550 ft) high and 1592 m (5223 ft) long and impounds Franklin D. Roosevelt Lake (248 km/150 mi long). It is used for flood control, river regulation, irrigation, and power production; its hydroelectricity-generating capacity, which totals nearly 6500 Mw, makes it one of the world's greatest hydroelectric installations.

"Grand Coulee Dam," Microsoft(R) Encarta(R) 97 Encyclopedia. (c) 1993-1996 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.l

Ralph

[Trev]

Jon, you need to live at the bottom of a steep river valley with a wide mountain catchment area above, then it all gets conveniently funneled down to you.
Here's my half kilowatt micro hydro-electric generator, uses about 2 litres a second, and powers my whole house.



Trev.

[Jon J Hutton]

Good use of the ole grey matter Trev.

I just installed water pipes/meters/holding tank and water to 7 multi family houses up the hill from our school project here in Guatemala. I never sweated so much, but it was very rewarding to see the families turn the spigot to get water instead of walking the half mile to the creek.

It looks like you are really off the grid, if you don't mind telling us what the unit cost and where did you purchase it.

[Jon J Hutton]

Just wanted to post this pic of one of many families (here in Guatemala) that we provided water to. A while back several offered sugestions on how to get them water, well it finally happened with a team from the states last week and I wanted to post this to say thanks to all who offered suggestions, especially Doc feelsgood for the book he sent.


Thanks

[Trev]

Hi Jon, Great to hear you finally got the water supply sorted there, it's all hard work but well worth the effort in the end - well done.
I have no grid connection, it's only about 200m away but the cost was more than building my own system, and then you still have the power bills, so I went for it. It's far more reliable than the grid, the main downside are the Inverters, most are not designed for constant use so they only last about 3 months if left on. A professional inverter designed for the real world is $2000 to $3000 - I'm still saving...
My turbine came from Michael Lawney from http://www.ecoinnovation.co.nz/
Highly recommended, he designs the turbine to your site and sends all the parts for you to build it, you also have to do the pipework, filters and general hard work.

Trev.