Is DNA a universal constant?

[Jim Williams]

I believe I misstated what Steven Hawkings asked the Pope. I know I misspelled "asked" as "as". I think what he actually asked was at the instant of the Big Bang, what happened? The Pope then answered that was only for God to know. I saw that in a movie starring Steven Hawkings about 15 years ago, so my memory might not be perfect.

I don't know about the nothing before the Big Bang except I believe that I will join that nothing after I die. However I'm not exactly looking forward for St Peter saying to me when I die, "Well you were wrong about that and guess what that means.

I think any life form that evolves to the point of awareness of its own, individual death, like man, also has a religion that starts with a belief of an afterlife. Dolphins come to mind as possible, maybe even cuttlefish. I really don't know, but I wouldn't be that surprized if other life forms on Earth have a religion.

I no idea Gandhi had said that. If I were religious, I would tend towards being of the Baha'i faith that says the heads of all different faiths, be they Jesus, Bhudda(sp) and so on, are all representatives of the same God and all religions are correct.

Contrary to popular belief, there are churches in San Francisco, although power seems to belong more to Nancy Pelosi at the moment.

[winkle]

I don't know about the nothing before the Big Bang except I believe that I will join that nothing after I die. However I'm not exactly looking forward for St Peter saying to me when I die, "Well you were wrong about that and guess what that means.

seems like you take a philosophical vew of some things
but don't fret this is one subject that will become much less philosophical and much more personal as time goes by

I think any life form that evolves to the point of awareness of its own, individual death, like man, also has a religion that starts with a belief of an afterlife. Dolphins come to mind as possible, maybe even cuttlefish. I really don't know, but I wouldn't be that surprized if other life forms on Earth have a religion.

point of awareness of its own, individual death

i just have one question about that statement
my question is
what do you think there is in a mouses mind that keeps him from jumping on a bear
being a man i'm not sure about the mouse but it could be the same thing that keeps a man from jumping on a bear
awareness of its own individual death

I no idea Gandhi had said that. If I were religious, I would tend towards being of the Baha'i faith that says the heads of all different faiths, be they Jesus, Bhudda(sp) and so on, are all representatives of the same God and all religions are correct.

that can be said but on the other hand we could also say that all science is correct which is generaly known to not be true

it could be said there are many kinds of men in the world because of skin color build cultural traits but science says that's wrong and that we are all related

uhoh scripture says the same thing that science says about this

Ac:17:26: And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

i suppose science may have to get a new theory it seems this one is already taken

we really should be careful about theory
as all to often just any old theory will do
please remember the site you are at reading this at
instead of Bessler Wheel it could be called the site of 10,000 wheel theories
most of which were thought to be correct at some point by someone :)

[DrWhat]

I can tell you all that just today a good friend of mine told me her dad passed away recently. If you are in doubt about anything after this life hear this: two weeks before passing her father sat up in his sick bed (normally weak and infirmed) and was beaming. He confided in his friend that he had a powerful vision of the afterlife, relatives speaking to him etc. He was very lucid and of sound mind. In fact when visitors came to him he sometimes would push them aside saying I'm watching something, namely watching visions of the afterlife.

When he passed away both my friend and her sister had very powerful lucid dreams on the same night. When they mentioned to each other that they had a dream, they both realised they had the same dream, the father was wearing the same clothes in each of their dreams (new novel clothes) and he was saying goodbye at a doorway with a strong bright glow behind it. He was saying "I'm fine, things here are wonderful, I've never felt so good" or something similar.

I state this as a fact and for those who do not wish to believe me, fine. My friend says her dad's passing was made much easier because of what happened. She is Geek Orthodox but usually skeptical of such things.

[Jim Williams]

I note from before that DNA both replicates DNA in cells and eats cells containing DNA as food. I can't think of any life form that says it wants to be eaten. Mice run from us, rabbits run from foxes. I think that comes from an instinct and not nessisarily awareness of death. DNA just seems to not want to discorperate. Out of time.

[winkle]

ometimes i think man playing withthe brain he has is like a monkey playing with a bottal of nitro

I think that comes from an instinct and not nessisarily awareness of death

do you view instinct as fact or convenient theory

if Einstein's theory of relativity is expanded a little it might apply here
it may just depend on where you'r looking from
having dominion and being very intelligent do not necessarily go together
dinosaurs once had dominion
a bear or tiger might be viewed as having dominion but not all that intelligent from our point of view
if a man were tested using a chimps intellect he might come out looking rather deficient
and to try to understand a dumb orange by comparing it to an intelligent apple would not be valid in my opinion
as we busy ourselves destroying this world that is our home for a few greenbacks just how discerning are we
sorta looks like anything man can't make a buck from he craps on
greed and wisdom are not the same thing
if an animal does a thing it's instinct if man does a thing it's because he is intelligent ?

sometimes i think man playing with the brain he has is like a monkey playing with a bottle of nitro

[ovyyus]

do you view instinct as fact or convenient theory

What isn't "convenient theory"? Much of science seems to involve the careful fabrication of theory in order to explain observation, and then the testing of that theory until it breaks and/or is replaced by a better theory. Ideas evolve and I don't think science has a problem admitting that. On the contrary, I think it is embraced.

On the other hand, religious theories tend to be wielded as rigid and unquestionable fact. But religious facts seem to change over time. If religious facts change over time, aren't these 'facts' just 'convenient theory' in disguise? I wonder if religious faith can survive without disguising convenient theory as unquestionable fact?

I think what he [Hawkings] actually asked was at the instant of the Big Bang, what happened? The Pope then answered that was only for God to know.

That seems to be the pat religious response to any mystery. If we went back in time a couple of hundred years and asked the Pope what the moon was made of, he might have responded with a similar statement - "only for God to know". Today, of course, the reponse to that question would be quite different because science has delivered some resolution to that particular mystery.

Surely it's not too hard to imagine a future that might hold similar changes in the attitudes of the religious faithful as science further enlightens them on other mysteries of the physical Universe.

Perhaps when a Pope says, "only for God to know", what he really means is, "I don't know".

[winkle]

What isn't "convenient theory"? Much of science seems to involve the careful fabrication of theory in order to explain observation, and then the testing of that theory until it breaks and/or is replaced by a better theory. Ideas evolve. I don't think science has a problem admitting that.

oh come on now science claims evolution as a fact

i like the way you paint science as very comfortable wash and ware

On the other hand, religious theories tend to be wielded as rigid and unquestionable fact. But that surely isn't true, we seem to observe religious 'facts' change over time - just as people change over time. Perhaps that's not so surprising if one is the creation of the other.

and religion as a starched and ironed stiffy
that's pretty slick

If religious facts change over time, aren't these 'facts' just 'convenient theory' in disguise? Do you think religious faith can survive without disguising convenient theory as unquestionable fact?

you're thinking seems to be as though there were two circles one religion the other science and everybody must get in one circle or the other
don't bother trying to paint me into either of those
i only speak for myself but i find more than a little truth in the scriptures and i find more than a little truth in science
for me they are not mutually exclusive
there are self centered hypocrites in both science and religion and to pick out either of those as examples just don't work for me
this kind of discussion for me kinda brings to my mind a picture of a man whose two arms are having a argument each arm trying to convince the guy one arm is good and the other is not worth having

Jim wrote:
I think what he [Hawkings] actually asked was at the instant of the Big Bang, what happened? The Pope then answered that was only for God to know.


That seems to be the pat religious response to any mystery. If we went back in time a couple of hundred years and asked the Pope what the moon was made of, he might have responded with a similar statement - "only for God to know". Today, of course, the reponse to that question would be quite different because science has delivered some resolution to that particular mystery.

Surely it's not too hard to imagine a future that might hold similar changes in the attitudes of the religious faithful as science further enlightens them on other mysteries of the physical Universe.

that's ok with me but don't forget this

Da:12:4: But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

and science is not new to scripture either

Da:1:4: Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king's palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans.

Perhaps when a Pope says, "only for God to know", what he really means is, "I don't know".

i don't personally care what the pope says he's just a man pretending to be more than he is

i am game though if science has the answer i would be very very interested to know what happened at the instant of the big bang
kindly include that information in your reply if you can

you seem to have made a mistake i favor both these subjcts and am not likely to be pushed into one camp or the other

[ovyyus]

OK :)

I think you'll find that science acknowledges evolution as a theory. That's kind of why it's refered to as the theory of evolution.

So, you think religious facts aren't 'convenient theory' then? Or perhaps I've made yet a another mistake?

[Jim Williams]

Elephants have their own burial grounds. That speaks of an awareness of death. How can one be aware of death without being aware of one's life and if one is aware of one's own life and death, how can one not imagine living past death? I think religion is instinctual to us lower life forms. Most animals just live their own lives, humans live their own lives and are aware of it at the same time. Do we miss out on living life by our spending some of our time being aware of it too? I don't know, but I wouldn't trade it for anything regardless.

God created science. God talks through science to us as well as scripture. Even if there is no God doing the talking, somebody is. Close enough for me.

[DrWhat]

I just watched James Cameron's "The EXODUS DECODED" on DVD.

You should definitely watch it. It scientifically explains an amazing biblical event. This ties in with many of the discussions above. You will be surprised.

[winkle]

OK :)

I think you'll find that science acknowledges evolution as a theory. That's kind of why it's refered to as the theory of evolution.

i suppose that would be because there is no proof

So, you think religious facts aren't 'convenient theory' then? Or perhaps I've made yet a another mistake?

i am not aware of any religious facts

it seems you have repeated the same error that was incorporated in you're piror post

that's pretty slick

or it may be that i am not up to date on these matters
perhaps you could point out a few religious facts so i can see what they look like

winkle wrote

i am game though if science has the answer i would be very very interested to know what happened at the instant of the big bang
kindly include that information in your reply if you can

i really would be interested in your scientific explanation of what happened at that particular point in time
on the other hand if you or science don't have a clue just a blank space somewhere in your next post will explain your sutition

Jim wrote

humans live their own lives and are aware of it at the same time.

humans spend their lives getting all the money and possessions they can lay their hands on while trashing the world they leave their children only to leave it all behind at death

is that the self awareness you are speaking of

self awareness for me is clean air to breath rather than enough money to pay for a lung transplant

DrWhat

You should definitely watch it. It scientifically explains an amazing biblical event. This ties in with many of the discussions above. You will be surprised

are you sure it's proof
could just be another crakpot theory

[ovyyus]

you seem to have made a mistake i favor both these subjcts and am not likely to be pushed into one camp or the other

You might favour both these subjects - but not equally it seems. The first response in your last post could be applied equally across both camps resulting in nothing more than 'convenient theory' everywhere and no proof to be found.

Could be you're looking for proof where there is none - not surprising then that you seem a little jaded.

[DrWhat]

Winkle, the documentary absolutely makes sense. As I say you should just watch it! You won't be disappointed.

[winkle]

Could be you're looking for proof where there is none - not surprising then that you seem a little jaded.

i see you left a blank space :)

Winkle, the documentary absolutely makes sense. As I say you should just watch it! You won't be disappointed.

i think i saw it a few years ago

if i remember right it was about a underwater freeway and the last guy in line picks up the tab

don't know what the odds of all that happening in one day and on the necessary day are

but it's a pretty big crap shoot to have happen by chance

[ovyyus]

The documentary "The Exodus Decoded", which is quite interesting, was only released in the US late last year. But that shouldn't stop some people seeing it a few years ago and giving it a pasting.

could be that some people know everything

could be that some people know nothing

definitely a crap shoot though