Many here are attacking TommyK, I think, simply because he is secretive. But he has given away most of what his device is like. And what little he has held back leaves only about three or four possible configurations for where the springs go. His wheel is the most interesting of all I've seen on this board! It is balanced, yet unbalanced. It gets its turning force not from being unbalanced, but from the inertia of weights stopping suddenly. In the process the next weight is knocked higher and it then becomes unbalanced and flips over. But all the while the wheel as a whole is almost balanced. There is a slight imbalance at one point, but it looks like there is enough excess energy form the rest of the cycle to overcome it. Only a model will tell me whether it works or not.
I have animated pictures of how I think TommyK's wheel works. But because it is TK's wheel I feel it is not my choice to disclose it publicly. That should be up to TommyK. I asked him if he wanted me to keep anything he told me as confidential. He gave me no restrictions.
I will be occupied for the rest of the week and through the weekend and can't get any more time for building until next week. Which really bugs me, but I must learn to be patient.
Jim you wrote;
> How can you be so absolutley certain TommyK is wrong? It is this type of flaming others that I find unsettling. You have already judged his wheel without really knowing what it is he has. How can you be so self rightious in thinking he is wrong and you are right? Lets be a little more polite, OK?
And yet shortly before you did the exact same thing to me where you quickly tried to point out my calculations were wrong, when in fact they weren't, and then you ended up saying my whole thread was just a lot of hot air. I think I can safely assume you'll find all that to be all okay because I was taking a more "seemingly negative " look (at least in a true believer's eyes) at Bessler and his wheel, when in fact I was exploring a very possible alternative. This board is after all set up to explore the Bessler story, and IS NOT just PRO Bessler. So I ask YOU... is that fair? It did tick me off a little but I didn't push that point. You didn't comment back and you are entitled to your belief. Just as Oyvvus as well is. And Oyvvus's comments are possiblymore accurate considering the history of everything. I really don't mean to be upseting to you Jim, you know I like you, but you are being a hypocrite.
As for the tommy idea, it is interesting that you posted that because I had a similar idea. See sweet spot thread.
Bestest regards,
Michael
meChANical Man.
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"All things move according to the whims of the great magnet"; Hunter S. Thompson.
Michael, lighten up!! If I remember right (and at the moment I DON'T have the time to go back and find my post) but as I say if I remember right the hot air post was just me trying to be humorous after the debate and facts kept getting thrown around back and forth etc. Don't take comments so personal! And when I didn't reply back I was not trying to offend you, I was just getting bored with the topic and had other more important things that required my attention. I'm sorry if I offended you, it was not intentional.
I look forward to different ideas here. Ideas are impersonal. We are here to discuss them. When someone puts down someone else's idea, it is just one idea vs. another. What I object to is personal attacks, such as calling someone a fraud, or a hypocrite, or any other derogatory name. You can call my ideas any name you want, but lets be polite and leave the personal name calling off the board, ok?
>Michael, lighten up!! If I remember right (and at the moment I DON'T have the time to go back and find my post) but as I say if I remember right the hot air post was just me trying to be humorous after the debate and facts kept getting thrown around back and forth etc. Don't take comments so personal! And when I didn't reply back I was not trying to offend you, I was just getting bored with the topic and had other more important things that required my attention. I'm sorry if I offended you, it was not intentional.
Jim, I am lightened up. I am not mad, I am just pointing out that you were seemingly doing the same thing. It seems like it is you that is now taking it personally. You have to admit, without person to person communication it is impossible to tell if someone is being facitious or humorous, and if you don't point it out, it comes off as slanderous. Oyvvus's comments could very well be accurate. You need to know the history to know if they are or not. Do you?
Sincerely,
Michael
meChANical Man.
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"All things move according to the whims of the great magnet"; Hunter S. Thompson.
If I had a working wheel, then I think the temptation would be there to play around with you guys, like TommyK is at the moment.
I think he is genuine, but I also think he's playing a game, slipping a bit of info here, teasing us with a little picture there. Will he? Won't he?
It has dawned on me that if I did build a working wheel, and the method was so simple, would my time and efforts be under-appreciated?
Do people deserve to be let in on the secret that I have devoted a lot of my time to?
Would someone try to claim it as there own?
TommyK is in a powerful position, but is he abusing his power?
I dunno....
I like TK's design i dont know if it will work or not but i would like to see it running under an oil cloth :)
as far as little information i think if i had a working wheel i would be
inclinded to give out as little info also but i would want someone to recreate my work, its the only way to prove it works
Several years ago I became involved with someone who claimed they had a working free energy device. They wanted no money, just that their claim could be verified. They seemed very honest and sincere.
Myself and a few others formed a working group and proceeded to replicate the claimants device (electrical) in order to verify its operation. On the first attempt it didn't work. We were at a loss to discover why because we had followed the claimants directions as closely as possible.
Ongoing discussions with the claimant resulted in continual changes in the replication that seemed to lead further away from the specifications originally outlined by him.
In the end we realised what was happening, but only after much time was spent on it. The claimant had an idea that he thought would work and some hardware that he had experimented with. He then presented that idea and hardware as a working device. By doing so he surrounded himself with interested individuals who had the skills and means to explore and experiment further. Why? Because if we had hit on a variation that just happened to work, guess who would have taken the credit.
Upon realising exactly what was going on we dropped the project and after confronting the claimant we received no futher email responses from him. Lesson learned.
This is a special form of deceipt that depends on the willingness of others to work for nothing for the good of the claimant. In retrospect the mistake we made was to believe that the claimant could not be a fraud simply because he asked for no money or conditions. Since then I've seen this happen several times, with the same end result.
Jim, I think you are falling prey to a similar scheme with TommyK and you are doing TommyK's work for him. By presenting you with a selection of components, and a limited description, he has been able to use your skills and time to explore permutations for his own gain. You said yourself that you don't feel that you have the right to post any ideas that you have about how the components might be arranged because it is not your idea. If you should somehow discover a working arrangement, perhaps with the addition of new components, guess who will step forward to collect?
Guys your all missing the point and that is that this is an open forum. Exchange of ideas positive or negative are vital to finding a solution to Bessler's Wheel in particular and PM in general. All other discussion is fruitless and unproductive.
If fear of losing ones ideas to others in this open discussion is what drives you, then what I suggest is PATENT THE IDEA or keep it a TRADE SECRET.
Hi to all I have been reading all that unties the great polemic of an active device, passions, it covets, avarice but after all that is not so bad I want to thank to all the members of this forum here very especially for the exposed information to tommy to share part of their project that independently that it works or not, this gives us a hope of we can build such a device. I for the time being already buy the weights and springs less than 20 dollars to make tests if I am not able to for I will request to tommy that me of a hand jajajaja
postdates: I am sorry for my English so bad you that you will understand, I depends much of translator
Very interesting scenario Ovyyus ! Kinda answers a few questions for me. I've been wondering for some time just what would motivate someone to claim they have a working device. I've gone thru just about the whole gambit from benevolent innocent truthfulness to down right perverse logic & deceit.
Until your particular experience cleared the "muddy waters" I was erring towards perverse logic whereby the claimant perhaps would later justify their actions by saying it was an honest attempt to shake the real (but tight lipped) working device inventor from his tree, by perceived threat of competition. The old politicians self justification of "plausible deniability" scenario.
It seems though that some have righthous belief in their idea but simply require more "horse power" to solve the problem & produce that "working device". Rather than share the idea in a close group or forum, it seems they would rather deceive people. I guess they thereby hope to avoid the intellectually embarrassing tag of "close but no cigar". They can forever claim they were not understood. A form of grand self denial I would have said. Very interesting indictment of human behaviour indeed.
I would say that most of us probably have been (in our own minds at least) "close" b4 & experienced a certain level of escalating paranoia especially after having invested so many hours to find a solution. We generally don't however resort to the type of behaviour you have outlined, thank goodness. Of course what goes on in your dreams is your own business :-) Thanks again for that particular jewel.
Where have you gone? Please if you have a working design, do not do as others have in the past. Ideas come and go like the wind and even the best ideas can get lost forever over much less then things like greed.
Now where did I put the paper with the working design on it? hehe I know its around here somewhere.
