Why haven't we yet seen a real working perpetual SMOT?

[psychopath]

This is my first post, so...yeah...

At first I thought the reason why the SMOT didn't work was because the ball couldn't pass the final magnet. Then I realised that this problem has been solved, and I have seen videos of the ball dropping after gaining about 1 cm in height.

So now what is the problem? The sticky spot has been solved, simply by dropping the ball through gravity. Shouldn't the rest be easy? Since the only sticky spot is solved?

[ovyyus]

Dropping the ball off the end of the ramp is easily achieved when the ball is allowed to drop to a position that is lower than the ramp entry level. Therein lies the whole of the problem.

[psychopath]

Dropping the ball off the end of the ramp is easily achieved when the ball is allowed to drop to a position that is lower than the ramp entry level.

Could you elaborate on that? Why does the ball need to be dropped to a position that is lower than the entry level?

[Jon J Hutton]

Psy,

I really have no idea, it seems that its a done deal by looking at all the smot videos from u-tube....but the camera can be decieving by someone looking for their moment of fame. Perhaps this wm attachment might work....who knows.

JJH

[wheelmaster]

I have built many smots and have used them as science projects for my children. The drop position does not need to be lower than the start position.

Build one yourself and see what I mean. All the parts can be found at Lows. Take about 10 minutes to put together.

[ovyyus]

The drop position does not need to be lower than the start position.

Kids one-shot demos are fine, but if you're trying to build a forever looping SMOT then the final drop position is always equal to the ramp entry height.

That's why the basic SMOT experiment is so deceiving: the ball rolls up the ramp and drops off the end with what seems like enough momentum to make it back to the ramp entry again. It seems so intuitive. But the ramp exit drag back force robs all the gained energy of the balls ascent and, with losses taken into account, the loop won't close.

That's not to say that a well made SMOT with minimal losses and a little bit of extra initiating kick might not be able to make a few circuits before losses eventually bring it to a halt. But no one has demonstrated a forever looping SMOT and for good reason too - the device would have to gain energy from somewhere in order to keep going. It has no facility to gain any additional energy from it's magnets or from Gravity. It's dead.

If I wanted to demonstrate a forever looping SMOT then I would carefully position the ramp so that the ball was exposed to a very slight tail breeze as it was pulled up the ramp to its drop off point. This would result in just enough energy gained from the very slight breeze to overcome the minute losses of the system and it would continue for as long as the imperceptable input was applied. It would make a great video - but it would be cheating :)

[Bessler007]

Your cheatin' SMOT will make you weep
You'll cry and cry and try to sleep
But slee-eep won't come the whole night through
Your cheatin' SMOT will tell on you

[wheelmaster]

Being that my shop is the great outdoors and the current temp here is over 100 degrees. I cannot work on my current wheel project.

I`ll invest some time into building a SMOT this weekend. All it takes are some magnets and some duck tape. God bless the inventer of duck tape because its a wonderful thing.

By the way ovyyous, have you ever put together a SMOT?

[wheelmaster]

psychopath

Try this this site http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1735.0

It is a discussion on how to close the loop.

[ovyyus]

By the way ovyyous, have you ever put together a SMOT?

Well yes of course, otherwise I'd surely be talking out my arse :D

[Fletcher]

Blessed are the lips that speak without moving ;)

[psychopath]

Ok, attacthed here is an oversimplified drawing of a circular SMOT with a return ramp(forgive me, I can't draw!).

I saw a similar drawing before, and people have probably even tried it.

But what is wrong with it? Never have I seen someone actually disprove it. Sorry, but "thermodynamics" is not an answer. Tell me exactly where it reaches equilibrium and exactly where the ball stops.

If it cannot be disproved, then, to me, all it is is an engineering problem, not a science one.

edit: I am having trouble attatching the image, but the description should be enough.

[wheelmaster]

Ovyyus,

Kids one-shot demos are fine, but if you're trying to build a forever looping SMOT then the final drop position is always equal to the ramp entry heigh

t

You are correct. I have tried over and over again to complete the loop with no success to date. There is a way to skin this cat but it just has not been found.

psychopath.

Don`t give up on it. Remember a loadstone ( rare earth magnet) was found in JB`s home.