As we do not have a new post with a heading for weird ideas only. This one goes in off-topics.
A large amount of imagination and tweaking is needed to even think of the possibility of a design like this.
The attached drawing is way out of proportion, but I try to explain it anyway.
The wheel is supposed to work clockwise.
For now, only one none attached bar (black) supplies the weight to turn the wheel.
The bar will always stay roughly between 5-6 o’clock.
.Seizes height/length of bar and weight has to be figured out.
Spring loaded or flexible red spokes could be used and could be incorporated with “V� slot.
There are too many configurations to be investigated with this wheel, but it does give me a different idea to play with for a little while. (trying to think outside the square) EVG
Too weird
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JohnnyD
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re: Too weird
Hi EVG,
This looks & sounds like the "small children playing with clubs between broken columns" quote.
To me, this quote sounds like a weight is pole-vaulting between the columns, as your drawing suggests.
JohnnyD
This looks & sounds like the "small children playing with clubs between broken columns" quote.
To me, this quote sounds like a weight is pole-vaulting between the columns, as your drawing suggests.
JohnnyD
re: Too weird
Yes it is, I don't take any credit. But I do think it is feasable. to me it is like lifting a 6 feet tree trunk over a 2 and half feet wall with the added bonus that the ground moves down. Also the "v"slot could be connected to the post on the right, simular a fishing rod bending. Or the bar could have springs inserted to either side. The weight/wheel on the bottom would compress into the bar and the weight/wheel would extent the bar on top. when the bar tilts it will give more torque to the top end. etc. Just a quick reply including mistakes and logic to be overlooked. EVG
re: Too weird
Addition; In this post “too weird� I like to also ask a simple but not fully explained question for the simple minded (me).
Gravity, Still water in a pond and atmospheric air pressure are all related in most peoples mind.
The question is, if I hold a wooden 6� pole vertically above the pond and drop it, the pole will submerge its full length. If I hold it horizontal and drop it, it will only go down 5� and pop up. O.K I realize we are breaking a bigger surface tension, buoyancy is reached faster with the horizontal pole (larger surface) than with a vertical pole, etc..
The same is true if we drop the pole vertically in soft sand, the impact is deeper.
Forgetting air resistance, does this mean that gravity is more localized in the vertical pole then in a horizontal pole? If so, can this be used in any of the many wheels we are trying to create?
Gravity, Still water in a pond and atmospheric air pressure are all related in most peoples mind.
The question is, if I hold a wooden 6� pole vertically above the pond and drop it, the pole will submerge its full length. If I hold it horizontal and drop it, it will only go down 5� and pop up. O.K I realize we are breaking a bigger surface tension, buoyancy is reached faster with the horizontal pole (larger surface) than with a vertical pole, etc..
The same is true if we drop the pole vertically in soft sand, the impact is deeper.
Forgetting air resistance, does this mean that gravity is more localized in the vertical pole then in a horizontal pole? If so, can this be used in any of the many wheels we are trying to create?
re: Too weird
More questions
Fill a small drum or large can with one kilo of talcum powder, drum has horizontal axle (drum lying horizontally) whole setup weights 3 kilos. Will it still weight 3 kilos when drum is spun? The talcum powder is not a mass weight when spun (Powder floating in air). Same result would be obtainable with different materials. Two drums with talcum powder, one spinning the opposite drum does not, is there an imbalance? EVG
Fill a small drum or large can with one kilo of talcum powder, drum has horizontal axle (drum lying horizontally) whole setup weights 3 kilos. Will it still weight 3 kilos when drum is spun? The talcum powder is not a mass weight when spun (Powder floating in air). Same result would be obtainable with different materials. Two drums with talcum powder, one spinning the opposite drum does not, is there an imbalance? EVG
re: Too weird
evgwheel,
Both of your above posts IMO are both reasonable questions.
They are also great ammunition for a debate leading to.. (you know)
Just My thoughts
Ralph
Both of your above posts IMO are both reasonable questions.
They are also great ammunition for a debate leading to.. (you know)
IMO, yes the gravity/mass is more localized. IMO no, I do not believe that it would help. A mass is a mass and will weigh the same no matter how you sit it on a scale.Forgetting air resistance, does this mean that gravity is more localized in the vertical pole then in a horizontal pole? If so, can this be used in any of the many wheels we are trying to create?
IMO the spinning drum would throw the powder to the rim just like a cream/milk separator works. There would not be any weight change between the two. You may however, IMO experience a differential by the gyroscopic action in the spinning one.Same result would be obtainable with different materials. Two drums with talcum powder, one spinning the opposite drum does not, is there an imbalance? EVG
Just My thoughts
Ralph
Last edited by rlortie on Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
re: Too weird
Ralph wrote:
I would also use a fan or a stirrer as part of the drum axle instead of rotatating the drum itself
This “Too Weird� post appreciates simple answers to questions without formulas and detail, it is more for stupid ideas, which by themselves are childish, but used in parts may make some people think outside the square (rightly or wrongly).
If you like to post stupid ideas here, no one will judge you, at least I won't
My next childish pic. With no explanation
You may well be right; however, in my opinion with horizontal drums, the powder or fluid thrown outwards may not have a mass/weight association to the drum in the same way as mass/weight lying idle.IMO the spinning drum would throw the powder to the rim just like a cream/milk separator works. There would not be any weight change between the two
I would also use a fan or a stirrer as part of the drum axle instead of rotatating the drum itself
This “Too Weird� post appreciates simple answers to questions without formulas and detail, it is more for stupid ideas, which by themselves are childish, but used in parts may make some people think outside the square (rightly or wrongly).
If you like to post stupid ideas here, no one will judge you, at least I won't
My next childish pic. With no explanation
re: Too weird
Evgwheel,
While employed by the US Army Corps of Engineers (Civilian). I was sent to College to a class called "Lead" Which is an acronym. This class was divided into groups and were given a scenario to solve. Each group came up with a different answer.
Call it "Brain storming", "Think tanking" or Brain washing, what ever you wish, but the point is: The more stupid the initial input, The more room and distance you can carry it without falling into "Tunnel Vision". Each member of the group adds response on ways to improve what is considered stupid into something viable. Each participant becomes more involved as the idea begins to grow into something productive.
The group that starts with a reasonable or text book starter, gets bogged down as they have no room to innovate.
There is no such thing as a stupid question! (maybe I should add in my opinion as that is what I was taught). Look for the un-obvious (to reverse the action or thinking process).
I love stupid questions, you never know what the end result may bring.
Such as your spinning drum, if the drum is rotating while spinning then the centrifugal force of the rotation would be added to that of the spin. possibly creating and end result that may be of interest. My next question is where does the force come from to start and maintain the spin?
Do not under estimate your simple garden rake see-saw, there is more here than meets the in-box eye!
Ralph
I do not know it you will believe me or not but I have a little story to tell you.This “Too Weird� post appreciates simple answers to questions without formulas and detail, it is more for stupid ideas, which by themselves are childish, but used in parts may some people think outside the square (rightly or wrongly).
If you like to post stupid ideas here, no one will judge you, at least I won't
While employed by the US Army Corps of Engineers (Civilian). I was sent to College to a class called "Lead" Which is an acronym. This class was divided into groups and were given a scenario to solve. Each group came up with a different answer.
Call it "Brain storming", "Think tanking" or Brain washing, what ever you wish, but the point is: The more stupid the initial input, The more room and distance you can carry it without falling into "Tunnel Vision". Each member of the group adds response on ways to improve what is considered stupid into something viable. Each participant becomes more involved as the idea begins to grow into something productive.
The group that starts with a reasonable or text book starter, gets bogged down as they have no room to innovate.
There is no such thing as a stupid question! (maybe I should add in my opinion as that is what I was taught). Look for the un-obvious (to reverse the action or thinking process).
I love stupid questions, you never know what the end result may bring.
Such as your spinning drum, if the drum is rotating while spinning then the centrifugal force of the rotation would be added to that of the spin. possibly creating and end result that may be of interest. My next question is where does the force come from to start and maintain the spin?
Do not under estimate your simple garden rake see-saw, there is more here than meets the in-box eye!
Ralph
re: Too weird
Ralph
I believe you!, only hope that other members can see the use in the importance of not being the “I know it all� person. Teachers often teach, Good teachers ask questions “Why is it so?�
People are often afraid to ask questions, for the fear of sounding stupid. Real stupid people do not ask questions, but bullshit their way through.
To your last question, I will leave that up to another member to answer. EVG
I believe you!, only hope that other members can see the use in the importance of not being the “I know it all� person. Teachers often teach, Good teachers ask questions “Why is it so?�
People are often afraid to ask questions, for the fear of sounding stupid. Real stupid people do not ask questions, but bullshit their way through.
To your last question, I will leave that up to another member to answer. EVG
re: Too weird
Is this too weird for a “too weird� post?
Man builds up 30,000 volts of static electricity
Victorian authorities believe a man built up at least 30,000 volts of static electricity in his jacket simply by walking around the western Victorian city of Warrnambool yesterday.
The man left a trail of scorch marks and molten plastic behind him.
It was yesterday afternoon when Frank Clewer walked into a Warrnambool business and got his first shock.
"It sounded almost like a firecracker or something like that," he said.
"It was at the reception area. Within say, around five minutes, the carpet started to erupt," he said.
Burns the size of 10-cent pieces were left on the carpet where Mr Clewer had been standing.
The Country Fire Authority evacuated the building and those around it, fearing the power could cause larger electrical problems.
But Mr Clewer's worries continued when he got back in his car.
"I actually scorched a piece of plastic I had on the floor of the car," he said.
Scientist Karl Kruszelnicki says it is likely the electrical build-up was caused by a number of factors, such as the synthetic clothes the man was wearing.
"This poor guy has built up static electricity thanks to an unfortunate combination of insulating clothes that he's wearing, static, synthetic clothes, just walking along and he's just building up this static charge everywhere," Dr Kruszelnicki said.
"I've read of it but I've never heard of it here in Australia."
The CFA has Mr Clewer's jacket and says it is continuing to give off voltage ……………………………
We all know about static electricity, The case above seems to be in the realms of ????
Building up static electricity does not require any friction, although friction and dry humidity does help a lot. Could the right conditions be created easily?
With all those positive or negative charges, pushing or pulling in certain directions, would there be a way that this created “magnet� could be used to power a wheel in an ideal situation????
Me know nothing, absolutely nothing. EVG
Man builds up 30,000 volts of static electricity
Victorian authorities believe a man built up at least 30,000 volts of static electricity in his jacket simply by walking around the western Victorian city of Warrnambool yesterday.
The man left a trail of scorch marks and molten plastic behind him.
It was yesterday afternoon when Frank Clewer walked into a Warrnambool business and got his first shock.
"It sounded almost like a firecracker or something like that," he said.
"It was at the reception area. Within say, around five minutes, the carpet started to erupt," he said.
Burns the size of 10-cent pieces were left on the carpet where Mr Clewer had been standing.
The Country Fire Authority evacuated the building and those around it, fearing the power could cause larger electrical problems.
But Mr Clewer's worries continued when he got back in his car.
"I actually scorched a piece of plastic I had on the floor of the car," he said.
Scientist Karl Kruszelnicki says it is likely the electrical build-up was caused by a number of factors, such as the synthetic clothes the man was wearing.
"This poor guy has built up static electricity thanks to an unfortunate combination of insulating clothes that he's wearing, static, synthetic clothes, just walking along and he's just building up this static charge everywhere," Dr Kruszelnicki said.
"I've read of it but I've never heard of it here in Australia."
The CFA has Mr Clewer's jacket and says it is continuing to give off voltage ……………………………
We all know about static electricity, The case above seems to be in the realms of ????
Building up static electricity does not require any friction, although friction and dry humidity does help a lot. Could the right conditions be created easily?
With all those positive or negative charges, pushing or pulling in certain directions, would there be a way that this created “magnet� could be used to power a wheel in an ideal situation????
Me know nothing, absolutely nothing. EVG
re: Too weird
Hi to all
I know this “Too Weird� post is posted in a corner of this great website, but it will be my last “too weird� post, as it seems it is just too weird for most.
But one more post, before I join the main stream.
This pic. Displays hinges. Reds are hinges and weights. Greens are wheels/weight. Black little lines are tracks and stops to control wheels.
Only one straight bar is shown. This was the result I got, with a screwdriver, stuck in a piece of rough timber, with old rusted hinges found in the back shed. EVG
I know this “Too Weird� post is posted in a corner of this great website, but it will be my last “too weird� post, as it seems it is just too weird for most.
But one more post, before I join the main stream.
This pic. Displays hinges. Reds are hinges and weights. Greens are wheels/weight. Black little lines are tracks and stops to control wheels.
Only one straight bar is shown. This was the result I got, with a screwdriver, stuck in a piece of rough timber, with old rusted hinges found in the back shed. EVG
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GadgetGeek
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- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:08 pm
re: Too weird
Hi Gadgetgeek
I also used drawer slides, (very wobbly and often got stuck) but I did get up to 4 turns out of it.
I know I said I would not post any more rubbish here, but one more will not hurt, will it? Another stupid idea flying past.
Edit 12 hours after this post; has any one worked out yet how not to tangle the chains (Weights)? there is an easy solution.
I also used drawer slides, (very wobbly and often got stuck) but I did get up to 4 turns out of it.
I know I said I would not post any more rubbish here, but one more will not hurt, will it? Another stupid idea flying past.
Edit 12 hours after this post; has any one worked out yet how not to tangle the chains (Weights)? there is an easy solution.
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GadgetGeek
- Enthusiast
- Posts: 34
- Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2007 9:08 pm
re: Too weird
Hi again GadgetGeek
I cannot blame you for not understanding the chain wheel. For the very good reason that this post was (like all other posts in this thread) an idea only to make viewers think.
The wheel is like any other vertical wheel, but without a central axle, for now imagine a giant roller bearing, outer ring being the axle (Get the idea?)
The chain tangle issue will not be discussed here, but let us say that that is not an issue for now.
On the rotating part of the wheel we have attached four chains (this is not quite right, but go with it) at 3, 6, 9 and12 o’clock. The other side of the chains connected to a pole outside the wheel at a height of 3 o’clock (give or take)
At 6 o’clock (Easiest to imagine), there is no weight as the chain lies on the ground.
At 3 o’clock, the weight of the chain is less then half the chains weight
At 12 o’clock, the weight of the chain is approximate ¾ of the chains weight.
At 9 o’clock, the weight of the chain is almost full weight if you count in the angle of the direction of the chain pulling.
Now if the chain weighs 10 pounds. At 6, zero pounds, at 3 four pounds, at 12 eight pounds, at 9, ten pounds and back to 6 at zero pounds. Overbalanced?
O.K. there are plenty of other issues (Not the tangled mess, which has been worked out). But hey, what can members expect, me building a working wheel, send them the patent and then sell it for them? Offcourse I would, but I do not have their bank details. EVG
I cannot blame you for not understanding the chain wheel. For the very good reason that this post was (like all other posts in this thread) an idea only to make viewers think.
The wheel is like any other vertical wheel, but without a central axle, for now imagine a giant roller bearing, outer ring being the axle (Get the idea?)
The chain tangle issue will not be discussed here, but let us say that that is not an issue for now.
On the rotating part of the wheel we have attached four chains (this is not quite right, but go with it) at 3, 6, 9 and12 o’clock. The other side of the chains connected to a pole outside the wheel at a height of 3 o’clock (give or take)
At 6 o’clock (Easiest to imagine), there is no weight as the chain lies on the ground.
At 3 o’clock, the weight of the chain is less then half the chains weight
At 12 o’clock, the weight of the chain is approximate ¾ of the chains weight.
At 9 o’clock, the weight of the chain is almost full weight if you count in the angle of the direction of the chain pulling.
Now if the chain weighs 10 pounds. At 6, zero pounds, at 3 four pounds, at 12 eight pounds, at 9, ten pounds and back to 6 at zero pounds. Overbalanced?
O.K. there are plenty of other issues (Not the tangled mess, which has been worked out). But hey, what can members expect, me building a working wheel, send them the patent and then sell it for them? Offcourse I would, but I do not have their bank details. EVG