Bessler's Wheel

[P-Motion]

Fletch,
If you check some of my early posts about Bessler, I clearly stated I did not believe he did it.
What changed my mind was reading what he said and the witness' accounts. This is how I came upon the pendulum effect. If it proves to be valid, then it would be what Bessler used so many years ago.
While I am not a Bessler supporter, I can support excellence in engineering. So I guess, if the idea proves to be valid, then I would be supporting his efforts and reputation.
Am I a bad person for considering I might be wrong ?

Steve .. we all know that once a solution is found then the mathematicians will pour over it & quick smart have a mathematical proof, because it is of the physical world & therefore should be able to be explained in Physics & Math - the trick is understanding why & how it could work - I'm certain it will be explained in relatively easy math & terms we can all follow but not where mathematicians have looked.

A far as Bessler is concerned, I'm not at all certain that the quote means he could put up a convincing abstract mathematical argument to convince the professional mathematicians, though he could put up a working wheel - Bessler was reputed to be a 'fair' mathematician although over his life time he had a long time to work thru the math to support his working wheel but without anyone seeing his math there is no way of knowing whether it was accurate - it might have been rudimentary by professional standards.

[rlortie]

Can anyone in this forum come up with a suggestion for a way to retract a weight while generating momentum ?

Are you to young to have heard of a Duncan Yo-Yo? Walk the dog. cat in the cradle. and around the world. This may have been the toy that the children played with in the streets. History records the yo-yo to 550 BC.

http://www.yo-yo.com/history.asp#

[Fletcher]

But, yo-yo's are NOT played with exclusively in the lane/streets ! Often they are played with inside buildings.

EDIT: added the word NOT, sorry.

[rlortie]

Fletch,

We cross posts, as I pulled mine for editing. found a link including time-line.

[Bessler007]

Jim,

Here are the pics wm2d produced. I set it to 20,000 frames a second. That's a lot of calculations.

In spite of these results I'll still try and come up with a model for you.

....
Test a pendulum swing based on the actual path the extended weight and if it were in a retracted position would follow.
....

[P-Motion]

Ralph,
If you were smart, you'd be living in Washington. What else do I need to know ?

Can anyone in this forum come up with a suggestion for a way to retract a weight while generating momentum ?

Are you to young to have heard of a Duncan Yo-Yo? Walk the dog. cat in the cradle. and around the world. This may have been the toy that the children played with in the streets. History records the yo-yo to 550 BC.

http://www.yo-yo.com/history.asp#

[P-Motion]

Ralph,
Surely you know that the yo-yo was originally a weapon used by the Philipino people.
Are you trying to insult them ?

Jim

Can anyone in this forum come up with a suggestion for a way to retract a weight while generating momentum ?

Are you to young to have heard of a Duncan Yo-Yo? Walk the dog. cat in the cradle. and around the world. This may have been the toy that the children played with in the streets. History records the yo-yo to 550 BC.

http://www.yo-yo.com/history.asp#

[P-Motion]

007,
I think it is as I mentioned, someone stated trading width for height.
I would expect the graph to demonstrate something along those lines.
But it is as I have mentioned, the only true test would be a real world test.
There is nothing that would compensate for this.
And to that end, what can be calculated that has not been programmed ?
Simply put, a new idea is not programmed into any current mathematical idea.
Remember, programmes come from experience :)

Jim,

Here are the pics wm2d produced. I set it to 20,000 frames a second. That's a lot of calculations.

In spite of these results I'll still try and come up with a model for you.

....
Test a pendulum swing based on the actual path the extended weight and if it were in a retracted position would follow.
....

[rlortie]

If you were smart, you'd be living in Washington. What else do I need to know ?

Smart enough to live 11-1/2 miles South of the Washington border. Due to their sales tax a lot of goods is sold at competitive Oregon price less sales tax. Being an Oregonian I do not have to pay that sales tax.

Do the math; Smart = Live in Oregon, buy high priced commodities in lower Washington .

Surely you know that the yo-yo was originally a weapon used by the Philipino people. Are you trying to insult them ?

What does the relationship of a toy known to have existed in 550 BC and used in the Philippines as a weapon insult them? I would say they were smart enough to find a lethal use for a toy!

[P-Motion]

Ralph,
you answered my question. Nothing but a personal attack.
I lived in Washington for over 25 years. And that would make me what ?
I have seen Oregon prices and unemployment rates compared to Washington. I would not brag.
And still, you did not answer the question.
Why ?
It is quite specific.
So please, in your next response, a mechanical fixed axis system that allows for a body to conserve momentum while conserving energy.
And when I walk the dog, a yank or external force is required to engage the yo-yo with the line.
You can hate me for this, my dad has possibly the same mnoney you do and I told him to keep it.
You know how immigrants are. They're like you. Got money and am bored.


[quoterlortie"]Smart enough to live 11-1/2 miles South of the Washington border. Due to their sales tax a lot of goods is sold at competitive Oregon price less sales tax. Being an Oregonian I do not have to pay that sales tax.

Do the math; Smart = Live in Oregon, buy high priced commodities in lower Washington . [/quote]

[Bessler007]

Aside from the buggyness of wm2d I think it calculates the forces in any given moment. Reality is analog. calculating the forces at every instant and the infinite instances between any two. A simulation is more choppy in its calculations. Setting the sim to calculate 20,000 frames a second, although choppy, should be a sufficient description of reality.

One thing I didn't bother to check was if the masses were where they were suppose to be. I think that's a major bug in wm2d. I wouldn't mind anyone's idea on it and I've posted my observations.

I have no idea if the laws of thermodynamics or the conservative nature of gravity is programmed in wm2d. I kind of doubt they are. That would be a major thing that should come after solving some of the more obvious bugs in the software.

...
And to that end, what can be calculated that has not been programmed ?
Simply put, a new idea is not programmed into any current mathematical idea.
....

[P-Motion]

Are you employing the tactic, when all else fails, confuse everyone ?
Can you cite a program that supports over unity ? That would be helpful.
If not, then an agenda such as this is outside of what a computer would allow for.
So, in all of your experience, can you show one of your models you've built that demonstrates that a pendular behavior does not generate torque?
I would love to see it.

Jim from Washington

If you were smart, you'd be living in Washington. What else do I need to know ?

Smart enough to live 11-1/2 miles South of the Washington border. Due to their sales tax a lot of goods is sold at competitive Oregon price less sales tax. Being an Oregonian I do not have to pay that sales tax.

Do the math; Smart = Live in Oregon, buy high priced commodities in lower Washington .

Surely you know that the yo-yo was originally a weapon used by the Philipino people. Are you trying to insult them ?

What does the relationship of a toy known to have existed in 550 BC and used in the Philippines as a weapon insult them? I would say they were smart enough to find a lethal use for a toy!

[Bessler007]

Are you employing the tactic, when all else fails, confuse everyone ?

it is confusing when you respond to one person but quote another. :) It would clear things up if you'd actually address a person.

... it looks something like this ...


Hello Jim,

etc.


Hello Jim,

Can you cite a program that supports over unity ?

Programs don't support anything. They are merely a set of instructions that with monotonous regularity preform tasks they are assigned to do.

[rlortie]

Jim from Washington,

Are you employing the tactic, when all else fails, confuse everyone ?

No! you are the one throwing out all the insinuations. I would rather put this personal attack aside and get down to business. I do not believe my IQ can be measured by what state I live in.

Can you cite a program that supports over unity ? That would be helpful.

If you are talking of a computer program, the answer is no. I am computer illiterate, and do not use such programs. Hell man I cannot even resize a picture to post here.

In the real world I can show you the use of magnetic bearings that have held up without decay for 13 years.

If not, then an agenda such as this is outside of what a computer would allow for.

I do not talk about computers: I head for the shop and build, I call it Research and Development.

So, in all of your experience, can you show one of your models you've built that demonstrates that a pendular behavior does not generate torque? I would love to see it.

The best way I can describe "pendular behavior" is: what goes up must come down! A pendulum needs an outside force to first get it out of balance. It then requires a resonating pulse some place in the cycle to maintain a given amplitude. If that resonating force is of the correct timing and force, the pendulum will gain in amplitude until it makes through 360 degrees. keep the pulse going and you have a wheel.

As for creating torque, sure a pendulum has a certain amount of torque as it falls from it apex to its point of balance and then decays rapidly. Problem I see is that it takes as much if not more torque to get it there. If the point of zenith or point of culmination; (acme) is reached then less pulse force will be required.

Why do you ask, did you not state that I must know nothing of pendulums? :0)

Ralph

[DrWhat]

It was thought my many that gravity was due to the atmosphere pushing down.

(oops, this was meant to go somewhere else!!)