Bessler's Wheel

[rlortie]

Jim from Wash.

Sad to say, I could go to Russia or France or Europe with my idea and most likely recieve some co-operation. Not have everyone say, you don't get something for nothing, but if you prove it to us then we will take it.

Another sign of self indulged tunnel vision. and the last one I will point out.

Do you not think that what you print here is being read in Russia, France. Europe, Guatemala. Italy, Turkey. Australia, New Zealand and many more.

Have you received any notices of intent to co-operate. Face the facts man, drawing a pendulum pivoting on a disc, x inches out and x inches down is not going to cut it.

Ralph

[ovyyus]

P-Motion, stomping around with a persecution complex against American's and saying no one in the world can prove you wrong isn't going to make a wheel turn. Perhaps no one is interested in your math for a reason?

I couldn't care less if you wrote and spoke dyslexic Albanian, had a brain the size of a walnut, and could prove that 1 + 1 = 3, just so long as you can make a wheel that actually works. Failing that, welcome to the ship of die-hard fools :D

[P-Motion]

P-Motion, stomping around with a persecution complex against American's and saying no one in the world can prove you wrong isn't going to make a wheel turn. Perhaps no one is interested in your math for a reason?

Maybe because it is beyond your understanding ? After all, peopel like Ralph comment on everything. But no one has touched the math.
And that is for one reason, they do not understand it. I know you don't.
Computing a multi-axial system is not taught in school.
I've been doing it since 1990. Guess I should say I was wrong. Like myd ad was for moving to America and marrying my mother.
Should I feel stupid because you have trouble with it ?
And since I have lived in America most of my life, when I hear Americans make rude comments about europeans working here is because of what ? Don't say my eharing loss, okay ?
But my stupid Norwegian father has lied to me and told me Americans have asked him to move back to Norway ebcause he was not welcomne here.
Who should I believe when I am 10 ? I know, I will believe you and say my dad lied to me and Americans were nice to him, okay ?
You put yourself in that spot, live with it.
It is just like I told Dr. John Lienhard who was a professor at the University of Houston, the math will work justa s well in Russia. And if it is as I believe, the patent canbe denied to America for 17 years.
Guess that's the game in a game like this. Hope the U.S. power grid can stay maxed out for another 17 years.
That is what's at stake at present. So bite me.

[ovyyus]

D-Motion, you really do have a bit of a chip don't you (or maybe it's a log). Perhaps that's a Norwegian thing? No matter, on the point of your 'multi-axial system' math, all I can say is that it holds little interest for me if it can't be applied to solving Bessler's wheel. You can harp on all you like about its merit and how no one else in the whole world understands it but from my point of view that's all a bunch of useless hot air if it can't be applied and demonstrated in the real world - which you clearly haven't done. It's up to you to prove your case valid, not everyone else to prove it otherwise. Don't worry, that's a common mistake.

However, if all you really want is a pat on the back for coming up with yet another theoretical proposal, why didn't you just say so - well done and congratulations. BTW, I would have thought that a clever math nerd might have better said, "So byte me" :D

[P-Motion]

[quote="P-Motion] Man, you really do have a bit of a chip (or maybe a log). Perhaps that's a Norwegian thing? No matter, on the point of your 'multi-axial system' math, all I can say is that it holds little interest for me if it can't be applied to solving Bessler's wheel. You can harp on all you like about its merit and how no one else understands it but from my point of view that's all a bunch of useless hot air if it can't be applied and demonstrated in the real world - which you clearly haven't yet done. It's up to you to prove your case, not everyone else to prove otherwise. Don't worry, it's a common mistake.

However, if you want a pat on the back for coming up with yet another theoretical proposal, why didn't you just say so :D[/quote]

I guess it is because you don't know me.
Should I apologize to Ralph that English is my second language or what ?
You let me know, okay.
He has said he likes foreigners but not people who misspell words. Je ne sais pas.
Ti skazat mne. korosho?
But if he wants to say one word about myself, just as you, start with the math.
This neither of you have considered. This would require effort on your part. And typical of Americans, they do wish something for nothing.
This is why they say, prove it. It is easier to be demanding of a solution than to be a part of it.

[ovyyus]

I am not American just like everyone with a persecution complex isn't Norwegian :P

Can you prove yourself right by trying to prove everyone else wrong?

[P-Motion]

I am not American just like everyone with a persecution complex isn't Norwegian :P

Can you prove yourself right by trying to prove everyone else wrong?

Ralph,
I am posting after the quote. Do you approve ?
Ovyyus,
So far I am the only person in this forum to challenge the presumption of why perpetual motion is not possible. The law, Conservation of Momentum.
In this instance, it is my humble and ignorant opinion that it applies to an over balanced wheel will need to convert the momentum generated by said behavior to move the weight responsible for said imbalance. And in that frame of reference would expend any developed energy to reinstate said potential to original place of occupation.
I have tried proving no one wrong. The lack of an idea that can be tested mathematically shows a lack of development of said idea.
I do know some people will present ideas in hopes of gathering information.
Unfortunately, with me, I have only been in defense of math, engineering and physics.
I am guilty of trying to show mathematically a way in which momentum can be conserved while possibly generating momentum. If not, then in the least a neutral behavior that would not require momentum to move the weight in a fashion it otherwise would not.
Something I believe would be a necessity for perpetuality to work.
Correct me if I am wrong. An example would be why perpetual motion would not violate the law in physics, Conservation of Momentum.
I would find that an acceptable starting point.

[jupter]

Correct me if I am wrong. An example would be why perpetual motion would not violate the law in physics,


BesslerWheel.com

[P-Motion]

I am not American just like everyone with a persecution complex isn't Norwegian :P

Can you prove yourself right by trying to prove everyone else wrong?

You know, Bessler wasn't above playing mind games. That does go back to getting something for nothing.
He did place a value for his work. It wasn't really about the money, but was more about the recognition.
After all, what working design did he make known ? None.
Yet, if I can move to Russia and have someone supportive of me, for what reason should I stay in America ?
There is none. And yet why should a country that dislikes me benefit from my work ?
Myself, I think it has more to do with people failing than anything else. What if it is not possible to generate momentum while restoring balance in a body ? This would show a specific reason why said behavior is not possible. The fear of realization.
If it does not work, then what would they do with their time ? Their hopes or dreams ?
Maybe if they took the time to examine the math and find fault with it like Ralph has with me, they might find it is something they would like to see to demostrate that they have not misplaced their beliefs.
But to prove someone wrong ? I could only do that to piss off America.
You know, either it works or it doesn't. Either it is done to show a possiblity or done to show ignorance.
I'm not gonna fight the flow on this one.

[ovyyus]

P-Motion, as you might have guessed I really don't have a problem with any proposal which helps us towards what I think is our singular goal here - to solve Bessler's Wheel. Some people, perhaps such as yourself, see math as a means to analyse the foundations of physics, such as the conservation laws, in an effort to prove that PM is possible. That's great, if it leads to an answer.

From my own perspective the conservation laws are simply not in question. I'm not trying to prove PM. My view is that Bessler harnessed an unexpected free environmental force as a means to drive a mechanism, lift weights, and turn his wheel - a legitimate 18th Century PM. Many disagree with me and agrue that somehow modifying the known laws of physics stands a better chance of success.

Just like everyone else, I am currently short on a demonstration to prove my hypothesis. But I'm working on in, just as we all are working on our pet theories and ideas. First one with a demonstration that can replicate Bessler's wheel wins the ultimate prize. Theories or math models which 'prove' a persons pet design or idea are forgotten.

[P-Motion]

Correct me if I am wrong. An example would be why perpetual motion would not violate the law in physics,


BesslerWheel.com

Jupter,
and this is what no one wants to see. it is what i have learned.

[ovyyus]

He did place a value for his work. It wasn't really about the money, but was more about the recognition.

I disagree. While I certainly think Bessler was interested in recognition, he was human afterall, acquiring monetary reward was primary.

Yet, if I can move to Russia and have someone supportive of me, for what reason should I stay in America ?
There is none. And yet why should a country that dislikes me benefit from my work ?

My view of America is clearly different to your own. IMO, America isn't some nice place filled with people who love each other unconditionally regardless of religion, race, colour, etc. America was built on adversity and struggle and men using men. The fight to succeed in a country that offers the possibility of virtually unlimited personal gain can be brutal. What else would you expect?

You know, either it works or it doesn't.

Now you're talking. Prove that it works.

[P-Motion]

Now you're talking. Prove that it works.

Ya know, these last 2 months in even beginning to think of the design, then come up with a complete design has been stressful.
All I've heard is it won't work.
Ralph has stated that it has been tried.
And going on his word that somebody at sometime tries it emans I'd be wasting my time.
As he said, he wants to be my mentor. And as such I will follow his advice. And that is not build it.
And I have been told I have a chip on my shoulder for tiring from continually hearing that.
You and Ralph wgin Ovyyus, I won't build it because it ahs been done.
You and Ralph should make up your mind.
It's like those guys in Clockwork approach discussing gravity. Makes me think they don't know physics.
A physicist has already shown where light of different wave lengths will travel at different velocities for a few cycles before conforming to 186,000 m/s.
This would hold true for gravity. At first, a small glitch might be detected in the acceleration rate. But after a nano or millisecond, it would demonstrate a unifirm rate of acceleration.
But you know Ovyyus, Bessler might have been human, but why did he keep his secret ? He didn't get the money he wanted and really got nothing for keeping the secret.
Why wasn't he concerned about proving all of his critics wrong ? I'm sure he had his share. Yet to huis dying day they say he didn't get along well with others.
Wonder why they didn't like him.

Bye Bye

[ovyyus]

P-Motion, Bessler kept his secret because he never found a buyer. He was not prepared to prove his critics wrong at the cost of his asking price - money was clearly more important to him than anything else.

You and Ralph wgin Ovyyus, I won't build it because it ahs been done.

If you're prepared to give up based on mere opinion offered by others, myself or Ralph's included, then you aren't going to make it very far. I never mentioned your chip issue in relation to Ralph's offered opinions, rather it was related to your own heart felt pleas of persecution by middle class America. I'll refrain from offering any more opinion in fear of crushing what little resolve you might have left.

[P-Motion]

ovyyus,
They say those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Bessler would have been a happy man if he walked away from it.
You can call it a whatever you wish issue. But I would wonder why I should consider it advice as you say when Raplh has only said it won't work. And I have had more than one post in here saying why make myself an idiot by building it. And that's in here.
I guess bad Karma why I won't build it. Believe what you wish.
But then, do believe Kas understood the principle. At least someone got it.