Question for Bill

[DrWhat]

The thermal idea to me is just silly. You need a heat differential to be able to utilise it. Tell me, where did bessler get the heat differential from? I'm seeing signs of desperation here, with all due respect.

And a wheel in a locked room... does it only spin when the sun is shining on it? And to go further didn't Bessler say something about 'it can be used in very cold climates' or something like that?

Bessler used a unique and intelligent lever system to manpulate motions involving inertia and gravity and whatever else. I am convinced of this and I hope to prove something before 2007 becomes 2008. If I can do this before the end of 2007 then Bessler's number seven will have some significance once again.

If I can't achieve this then nothing lost, nothing gained. Just DrWhat remaining silent again, watching, reading posts.

[DrWhat]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" ARTHUR C. CLARKE

[ovyyus]

The thermal idea to me is just silly...

I can appreciate your point of view. However, if someone showed you a simple spinning hollow metal body, with openings at its periphery and poles, that when accelerated in a specific manner acts to separate air in and around it into hot and cold regions, producing an additional momentum gain from the induced thermal pressure gradients acting upon it, you might be slightly more open minded? Or maybe not :D

[bluesgtr44]

Hey Bill....

I can appreciate your point of view. However, if someone showed you a simple spinning hollow metal body, with openings at its periphery and poles, that when accelerated in a specific manner acts to separate air in and around it into hot and cold regions, producing an additional momentum gain from the induced thermal pressure gradients acting upon it, you might be slightly more open minded? Or maybe not :D

Just how much did this thing lift? Now, once Bessler had that cross beam that actually "spontaneously rotated a little..." he had a working model up and running in just months....ripped at about 56 rpm's, lifted about 10 lbs. Sounds a bit less complicated than a hot/cold air separator.....but I could definitely be wrong!


Steve

[AB Hammer]

Greetings all

DrWhat
I am with you for some reason about 7 now. Two nights ago I got woke up by a dream of the MT18 at 3:00 am. I had to go to my drawing pad and started drawing my dream. It is a new leaver effect and a change in the MT18 direction. Now this is just a drawing but it keeps 2 weighted arms in power 1 and 4 o'clock position, 1 in what I call null space at 5:30 position and one in the curved relaxed state but also being accelerated starting at the 8:30 to 9:00 o'clock position. This wheel is now a must build for me and I am off to do it. And I will of course keep you posted.

[graham]

Any time a weight is accelerated by either a spring lever or spring loaded arm there will be an inertial drag .
This drag can also be called countertorque and it will act to retard the motion of the whole wheel assembly.

MT 18 suffers from this problem and therefore cannot work as depicted.However I really like MT 18 because it seems capture the spirit of a Bessler wheel.

Find a solution to this opposing drag and I believe you will have solved the puzzle.

Graham

[Fletcher]

With me....it is the quick acceleration, had to be tied off (one directional), exceptional velocity...smooth running...that throws the wrench in it. I can't see how a thermal input can create that "on demand"....CF has to be started first to provide any input...same with aero dynamic lift.

How in the heck was he able to maintain a constant OOB effect, I'll call it...from zero. I find this astounding! It had been mentioned, I believe by Tueber, that the start and stop was always very consistent.

Yes, if you use Bill's example of a possible thermal gradient separator & the other two possibilities of CF & AL, then it is obvious that they are dynamic systems - they need the wheel to be underway before an extra internal force can be generated - that doesn't mean to full 'clip' before the Prime Mover force is generated, but more the Prime Mover force builds as the rpm builds, initially at least.

We know the two directional wheels needed a push to get them going otherwise they sat perfectly still [& in balance] - they needed an injection of momentum given to the wheel so that some internal parts could then become dynamic [swing/fall/move] within the revolving wheel to generate the Prime Mover Force.

The one directional wheels are still dynamic systems but since they are recycled OOB designs they can be tied off in a position of positive torque - when released they rotate to find the nearest available keeling position but once moving some internal parts then become dynamic [swing/fall/move] within the revolving wheel generating the Prime Mover Force.

Another thing....trying to separate the two effects. He states that the wheel, moves with the weights...and "gains force from their own swinging/motion".....and then yet....."the velocity is proportional to these weights and the diameter of the wheel." Hmmmmm.... Steve

'the weights themselves are the Perpetual Motion' - Steve : 'the wheel moves with weights' - the OOB wheel is the overbalancing mechanism - and "gains force from their own swinging/motion - it is a dynamic system that must have movement to generate the Prime Mover Force, & then the weights can shift.

[Fletcher]

Any time a weight is accelerated by either a spring lever or spring loaded arm there will be an inertial drag.

This drag can also be called countertorque and it will act to retard the motion of the whole wheel assembly.

Find a solution to this opposing drag and I believe you will have solved the puzzle.

I would agree with you Graham - the Prime Mover must shift weights at the appropriate time without causing undue counter-torque - because it itself is a dynamic system, within a dynamic system, its own movement must generate some internal drag or small penalty to the system, but not enough to zero sum the whole game.

[graham]

Yes, if you use Bill's example of a possible thermal gradient separator & the other two possibilities of CF & AL,

Hi Fletcher, pardon my ignorance but what is AL ??

Graham

[Fletcher]

I got sick of writing Aerodynamic Lift so I abbreviated it a long time ago to AL - I think from now on I'll also abbreviate Prime Mover to PM, not to be confused with PM ;)

[graham]

Thanks Fletcher. Aerodynamic Lift !! The mystery gets deeper.
Got any ideas along these lines ?

Graham

[Fletcher]

Yes, I'm working on a build based on a theory & design I finally put to paper in July.

[rlortie]

Its going to take a lot of PM to create enough AL to get from DUD to PDT! (Pilot talk) :-)

Ralph

[Fletcher]

Yes Ralph, can't tell you the ETA but I'm past the PNR [Point of No Return]

....."the velocity is proportional to these weights and the diameter of the wheel."

Its going to take a lot of PM to create enough AL ..

To Ralph & Steve .. my theory addresses why the wheel diameters were so big & it has to do with generating enough force to shift the weights which are just part of the overbalance system [a recycled OOB system as Bill put it] & located nearer to the axle than the rim, as previously discussed.

[rlortie]

"the velocity is proportional to these weights and the diameter of the wheel."

OK! so what are we referring to, size of the weights or density of the weights?

According to what we are taught, that mass has no bearing on gravity induced falling velocity. Then he must be referring to the size. The smaller the weight the more room it has to travel in a given proportion to the size of the wheel. The smaller the wheel or the larger the weight means less velocity in a given cycle.

Eight thumps were heard per revolution, could this mean that the weights had 1/8 of wheel diameter to gain velocity.

He is talking velocity and not torque, so IMO a large radius with small weights will deliver X amount of torque, a smaller wheel with larger weights will deliver the same amount of torque at a lower RPM.

Does this thinking explain why his wheels of different diameter had different RPM?

Other than one wheel lifting an alleged 60 pound load of brick on a four part line What if any reference is given for the capable torque value of the other wheels rotating at different RPM?

Ralph