My Original Idea

[Gregory]

Laziness is the mother of invention and is used by the ignorant and the educated. Why do manual labor if you can invent something or some way to lighten the burden.

IMO the educated is also the man of reason. educated reasoning says that a gravity wheel or PM is impossible. His math says it is impossible. His background in physics says it is impossible.

So I ask you; What are his chances of discovering such a machine.

True. Such an educated man does not have too much chance. It should be noticed that I said the same in general in my latest long post. So, the educated man should have to go in the workshop to make his hands & skin dirty, then maybe go to an art-room at night to paint a picture or write a poem to express his hearth, soul and impressions. Then the next day he can go back to his maths, physics, pencil, compass, and calculator.

In the quote, Bessler is saying that sometimes you must put your tools, books, compass down and must walk to your veranda or garden to sit down, be calm, watch the stars at night, have a good tea... and maybe write a poem, draw down your favorite tree in your garden, do some easy philosophical talk with a friend, or something... Just forget reasoning, your side of REASON. So listen to the world and be open for any sense and feeling... Something like this.

The pencil in your hand is reason. The hammer is reason...
Knowledge is reason. Skills are reason. What if is reason. Maths is reason. Science is reason. Learning is reason. Thinking is reason.

What are the things which aren't reason?
Arts, impressions, atmospheres, feelings, moonlight, dance, theater, the song of the birds, falling snowflakes, imagination, faith...

So, IMO Bessler is saying that you should stop reasoning every day, and all day long.

[Fletcher]

And adding to what Greg has said in an excellent way, you may just let your defences down long enough for a counter-intuitive thought to enter your head & take root - something beyond your normal but blinkered powers of reasoning & application of knowledge.

[coylo]

Laziness is the mother of invention...

I like that Ralph,
"The pursuit of laziness is the mother of all invention."
Breakthroughs are bad for our health!
...(unless you're inventing the latest fitness craze gizmo, then your quote does not apply).

[Bessler007]

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Just because a man is ignorant in one or more areas does not mean he is ignorant in all areas and you should be very glad of that

perhaps you should consider before you start picking at folks

or not as you chose

I think I'd choose 'not' seeing as it's an option. I can't imagine how it would matter to me whether a person were very proficient and skilled in building but very ignorant in design.

Now it does appear you could mean what's termed 'country dumb' and at times said as 'oh, he just be ignorant that way.' I have seen that. That's the case where someone isn't quite sure where acceptable boundaries are. My take on it is the person really isn't ignorant. He just be acting ignorant. So should I be glad the man isn't inclined to 'act' ignorant? I think I'd still choose 'not'.

The idea someone is willing to act ignorant isn't going to change my perspective. When ignorance is an act it magically transforms into stupidity. They should know better than to act but above that they shouldn't expect everyone to buy the act. Very stupid.

I mentioned I'd seen that. Over the past year an ignorant redneck hillbilly friend of mine took an inexpensive tool I had bought for a project and right in front of my face threw it into his tool box. There's not much doubt he wasn't ignorant about who's it was. He was just acting ignorant. After that I lent him tools to work on his truck and the ½ drives (ratchet, extensions, socket) never managed to find their way back to my tool box. As I mentioned an act of ignorance is really stupidity.

He has no idea how much those tools cost him.

And all that just on a hunch of what you meant. Misunderstandings can happen no matter how clear you make yourself. I would say you weren't too clear. I think I was clear when I said I think your mind was already made up. I don't know how you could have mistaken what I said as advice to you.

[Bessler007]

Hello Gregory,

There is no doubt a person needs to take a rest. Slow down and smell the roses or in my case coffee.

However this opinion isn't true. For starters the 'educated' isn't always 'the man of reason'. Now given the educated were 'the man of reason' then reason would demand the man reject paradoxical conclusions and not blindly follow what is termed 'educated reasoning' and the presumptuous conclusions listed.

The premise is faulty in addition to the conclusions. Being an educated man of reason I know these things. :)

People blinkered by their education and experience are certain energy can't be created. Something I find counter-intuitive is the notion that the whole is less than the sum of its parts. Makes no sense.

IMO the educated is also the man of reason. educated reasoning says that a gravity wheel or PM is impossible. His math says it is impossible. His background in physics says it is impossible.

So I ask you; What are his chances of discovering such a machine.

True. Such an educated man does not have too much chance.

[Gregory]

However this opinion isn't true. For starters the 'educated' isn't always 'the man of reason'. Now given the educated were 'the man of reason' then reason would demand the man reject paradoxical conclusions and not blindly follow what is termed 'educated reasoning' and the presumptuous conclusions listed.

The premise is faulty in addition to the conclusions. Being an educated man of reason I know these things. :)

You are also true, I agree that there are educated men who aren't as blinded by their education, but you can too admit that there are just as much in the opposite camp.

People blinkered by their education and experience are certain energy can't be created. Something I find counter-intuitive is the notion that the whole is less than the sum of its parts. Makes no sense.

Well, I think we all can agree that in the case of Bessler's wheel, and in the case of any good & efficient system, the whole has to be something more than the sum of its parts. Otherwise I think we are mostly in agreement in these things.

However throwing up the question that energy can or cannot be created... is really a conflicting thing.
Obviously, it was "created" once. But I find difficult to think that a sort of mechanical things are capable of creating energy, from... From what source ?? It's not the mechanism which creates the energy. It must come from one or more source...

[DrWhat]

Energy may be the natural state of the universe, of everything. We cannot assume that nothingness is the natural state of the universe (ie before the alleged big bang).

As far as everything around us is concerned it is energy changing form to increase it's complexity. It is like energy WANTS to increase it's complexity. Particles essentially from the sun evolving into humans...wow!

My view at this stage is that energy can only change form and cannot be created. But even the smallest particles contain a massive amount of energy. So there is much more concealed energy around us than we think. Our aim is to pull it our and/or change its form... unleash it.

[LustInBlack]

I agree with DrWhat ..

We say energy is conserved, which is true..

Tapping into matter, using a bit of that massive amount of energy and changing the form of matter back to something else conserves energy..

We need to find another source.

Is Bessler's wheel tapping another source of energy !?

[Gregory]

I too agree with Drwhat's opinion. But energy had to be created at the beginning of the universe, or if not then it had to always be existed. Maybe this thought does not make too much sense, I just found it strange...

I am sure Bessler's wheel was tapped into some source of energy, maybe an unknown one by todays scientific standard.

From Einstein's E = mc^2 , we know that the smallest quantity of matter holds an extreme amount of energy in itself.

It is really weird for a thought, but what if when Bessler found a strange method to tap into the locked energy inside a big quantity of matter without actually using up any of it?

You know, two pounds of mass is really enough to erase a whole city and raze it to the ground... So if the possible maximal efficiency of such a weird method would be only as small as 0,01 %, that would be still more than enough to operate the wheel.

This is just a speculative, philosophical idea off the top of my head, so do not take it too seriously. Just for speculation... ;)

[LustInBlack]

It could be a RadioActive Wheel... ;]

[winkle]

don't forget the possibility of the abracadabra factor
magic wand and all

[Gregory]

Hhhmm... Winkle, you made me thinking!

I almost forget that I have an old magic wand somewhere in the old cellar of my ancestor's house.
I may going to dig a little there among those bric-a-brac to see whether I can dig it up.
As I remember it was a pure ancient wand and very effective!! Would you like it? I may consider to sell it to you for 20$
;)

[LustInBlack]

Change him into a wheel instead... ;]

[winkle]

Hhhmm... Winkle, you made me thinking!


As I remember it was a pure ancient wand and very effective!! Would you like it? I may consider to sell it to you for 20$
;)

last time i messed with a Roman candle the dang thing started shooting out booth ends

thank you for you're consideration but i may not have the proper education to be messing around with a magic wand

[john.smith]

Jim

Please give it a rest!! you are not achieving anything.

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007