Ok - now I understand what you are getting at.
However, your assumptions at 9 and 12 are not correct. At both positions, half of the chain's weight will be pulling on the attachment point since the chain will be fully suspended at both points. With only four chains, I see this design balancing with the 9 and 12 o'clock points evenly spaced on each side of 12 o'clock (the point where enough of 6 o'clock's chain is still in the air and balances the 3 o'clock chain).
Cool idea though! Literally thinking out of the box!
Too weird
Moderator: scott
re: Too weird
To be copied and posted as an answer to a reply, this thread only (making it easy for you)
Stop wasting our valuable time with posting stupid/childish ideas.
This idea came to me, in bed, just before a 25-year-old brunette interrupted my thought process.
The idea is based on a pushbike bell, just bigger. It may work on a horizontal or vertical wheel. “A may not chance� has 99.9 percent of winning. Most of you know what the rotating arm of a pushbike bell looks like. It is a rotating centre pivoting balanced arm with 2 movable wheels/weights on either side.
The wheel has a stationary outer rim, which supposes to turn the bell mechanism. The rotating part of the wheel has the larger bells and a stopper. The stoppers are placed so the moveable wheels/weight of the bell arm just crazes (touch) the stoppers.
Now here comes the part why it is a stupid idea. Firstly, instead of the bell only having one arm, it could have 4 or more arms with 8 or more movable wheels/weights, this will allow those wheels/weights to touch the stoppers with a lighter touch and still have the same overall impact on the rotating yellow wheel. In other words, if the bell mechanism rotates at 10 revolutions per second with 8 bell arms hitting the stopper at an impact of 10 grams the wheel will receive a 800 gram impact times 16 bells on wheel equals 112800 grams which in turn equals 12,8 kilos. Secondly, since the wheels/weight of the bell arms are movable (not solid on the bell arms) the impact on the stoppers should be more then the impact on the bell wheels/weights. Could it be at all possible that the bells can be rotated with less energy then the yellow wheel supplies?
Back to my 25-year-old brunette for some more light entertainment.
Stop wasting our valuable time with posting stupid/childish ideas.
This idea came to me, in bed, just before a 25-year-old brunette interrupted my thought process.
The idea is based on a pushbike bell, just bigger. It may work on a horizontal or vertical wheel. “A may not chance� has 99.9 percent of winning. Most of you know what the rotating arm of a pushbike bell looks like. It is a rotating centre pivoting balanced arm with 2 movable wheels/weights on either side.
The wheel has a stationary outer rim, which supposes to turn the bell mechanism. The rotating part of the wheel has the larger bells and a stopper. The stoppers are placed so the moveable wheels/weight of the bell arm just crazes (touch) the stoppers.
Now here comes the part why it is a stupid idea. Firstly, instead of the bell only having one arm, it could have 4 or more arms with 8 or more movable wheels/weights, this will allow those wheels/weights to touch the stoppers with a lighter touch and still have the same overall impact on the rotating yellow wheel. In other words, if the bell mechanism rotates at 10 revolutions per second with 8 bell arms hitting the stopper at an impact of 10 grams the wheel will receive a 800 gram impact times 16 bells on wheel equals 112800 grams which in turn equals 12,8 kilos. Secondly, since the wheels/weight of the bell arms are movable (not solid on the bell arms) the impact on the stoppers should be more then the impact on the bell wheels/weights. Could it be at all possible that the bells can be rotated with less energy then the yellow wheel supplies?
Back to my 25-year-old brunette for some more light entertainment.
re: Too weird
Just one more. Sounds like a bad habit.
Offset external axleArms are spring loaded,. In other words, arms can change lengths.
The offset external axle has holes through it where arms can move freely
Arms will have more weight LHS
Black wheel does not turn. (It has the outer rim as guide to wheels/weight)
Arms and weights/wheels do turn
Real axle is the offset one
Offset external axleArms are spring loaded,. In other words, arms can change lengths.
The offset external axle has holes through it where arms can move freely
Arms will have more weight LHS
Black wheel does not turn. (It has the outer rim as guide to wheels/weight)
Arms and weights/wheels do turn
Real axle is the offset one
re: Too weird
Why I belief we will not find a working wheel from Bessler’s writings and drawings?
Almost none of his drawings work.
If they are time stamped, we may be able to locate his latest reference and drawing of the wheel, he has used to create the working wheel on.
Does anyone belief that the numbering of his MT is in any way a reference to the order of the drawings?
If we can locate his last drawn wheel, only than can we start to look for hints.
Bessler, who wanted to protect his invention, even more so then some members of this forum would have had great pleasure in showing all his marvelous drawing and mixed them up including his working one.
If his working wheel is amongst the ones published, it will still not give us an hint, as I belief that even the working drawing did not work until Bessler looked at it again and again until he spotted his mistake in that wheel and rectified it into the physical working wheel.
As far as his writings are concerned, I again feel that is similar to his drawings. They are only hints, to confuse and at the same time contain truths in unrelated sentences.
Find his latest drawing just before his creation of his working one-way wheel and we may have a chance to ponder and come up with a duplication of that wheel.
The more I think about Bessler the man, the more I dislike his attitude to his fellow man, and maybe he deserved the way that other people think about him, a crackpot.
P.s. The image in the above post needs the black wheel to turn by belt from offset axle
Almost none of his drawings work.
If they are time stamped, we may be able to locate his latest reference and drawing of the wheel, he has used to create the working wheel on.
Does anyone belief that the numbering of his MT is in any way a reference to the order of the drawings?
If we can locate his last drawn wheel, only than can we start to look for hints.
Bessler, who wanted to protect his invention, even more so then some members of this forum would have had great pleasure in showing all his marvelous drawing and mixed them up including his working one.
If his working wheel is amongst the ones published, it will still not give us an hint, as I belief that even the working drawing did not work until Bessler looked at it again and again until he spotted his mistake in that wheel and rectified it into the physical working wheel.
As far as his writings are concerned, I again feel that is similar to his drawings. They are only hints, to confuse and at the same time contain truths in unrelated sentences.
Find his latest drawing just before his creation of his working one-way wheel and we may have a chance to ponder and come up with a duplication of that wheel.
The more I think about Bessler the man, the more I dislike his attitude to his fellow man, and maybe he deserved the way that other people think about him, a crackpot.
P.s. The image in the above post needs the black wheel to turn by belt from offset axle
re: Too weird
Just one more. Not a drinking habit, it is definitely a “Bessler habit�.
Please do not take any of my “Too Weird� post seriously; it is just a sketchpad.
My Idea to use weights on only one side of the wheel
Clockwise
A are weights (balls)
Track 1 is a curved track (straight was easier to draw)
Track 2 return track
B point may be used to lift weights a little
My simple explanation:
Weights between 3 and 6 o’clock turn wheel
From 6 to 9 they run on a track, isolated from turning wheel
Between 6 and 9 weights still have momentum to travel up to (let us say 8 o’clock)
Apart from friction etc. any off balance to the wheel is between 3 and 6
Can a kinetic energy be applied at 8 o’clock (or B) to send the last ball on track 1 30 or 40 degrees up?
(tracks are not attached to wheel)
These are not answers, just questions to a Too Weird idea. EVG
Just looking at it again. the weight could join the wheel at 8 o'clock and use track at 9 0'clock to fall back to power the wheel EVG
Please do not take any of my “Too Weird� post seriously; it is just a sketchpad.
My Idea to use weights on only one side of the wheel
Clockwise
A are weights (balls)
Track 1 is a curved track (straight was easier to draw)
Track 2 return track
B point may be used to lift weights a little
My simple explanation:
Weights between 3 and 6 o’clock turn wheel
From 6 to 9 they run on a track, isolated from turning wheel
Between 6 and 9 weights still have momentum to travel up to (let us say 8 o’clock)
Apart from friction etc. any off balance to the wheel is between 3 and 6
Can a kinetic energy be applied at 8 o’clock (or B) to send the last ball on track 1 30 or 40 degrees up?
(tracks are not attached to wheel)
These are not answers, just questions to a Too Weird idea. EVG
Just looking at it again. the weight could join the wheel at 8 o'clock and use track at 9 0'clock to fall back to power the wheel EVG
re: Too weird
Another “Too Weird� idea
Centrifugal force (and Centripetal force) as I see it.
Whatever Centrifugal force is, we all know its effects.
The main problem with it is, as the name suggests, it is focused on its centre of supply and to gain linear force out of Centripetal force we have to break or change the connection in normal circumstances.
To create a centrifugal force, Imo is a most cost effective way of using energy and to increase the centrifugal force requires less energy input than its output. (I know that is not suppose to be possible). Now comes the totally weird Idea. One of the few uses for Centrifugal force to be used in an overbalanced wheel goes as follows (see Pic.)
As per pic. 2 small weights connected by rope to larger weight on arm.
Arm weights are attached to axle by spring to just carry weights weight when hanging.
There is a fixed red runner (not rotating) for tubes and small outside weights to rotate (roll) on. Yet another impossible dream taking up space
Centrifugal force (and Centripetal force) as I see it.
Whatever Centrifugal force is, we all know its effects.
The main problem with it is, as the name suggests, it is focused on its centre of supply and to gain linear force out of Centripetal force we have to break or change the connection in normal circumstances.
To create a centrifugal force, Imo is a most cost effective way of using energy and to increase the centrifugal force requires less energy input than its output. (I know that is not suppose to be possible). Now comes the totally weird Idea. One of the few uses for Centrifugal force to be used in an overbalanced wheel goes as follows (see Pic.)
As per pic. 2 small weights connected by rope to larger weight on arm.
Arm weights are attached to axle by spring to just carry weights weight when hanging.
There is a fixed red runner (not rotating) for tubes and small outside weights to rotate (roll) on. Yet another impossible dream taking up space
re: Too weird
Hi, as long as there is no working pm wheel, I’ll post some more stupid ideas.
Until someone tells me to stop or curl up and die.
The rough drawing below = a rough drawing.
Weight, size and length, height should be manipulated by anyone who thinks it may be possible. EVG
Until someone tells me to stop or curl up and die.
The rough drawing below = a rough drawing.
Weight, size and length, height should be manipulated by anyone who thinks it may be possible. EVG
re: Too weird
This Idea works (in my dreams)
My bi-weekly input of weird ideas
The image shows one rotating arm of the system
This idea is to have a very slight air pressure difference between rhs. and lhs.
You just have to design the control tubes and collect your millions
Good luck EVG
My bi-weekly input of weird ideas
The image shows one rotating arm of the system
This idea is to have a very slight air pressure difference between rhs. and lhs.
You just have to design the control tubes and collect your millions
Good luck EVG
re: Too weird
Hi to all of you (one or two) members who may look at the post “Too weird�
I would like an answer to a question, if you have the time.
Air pressure difference, there are several ways to obtain this in my opinion.
Still air (or slow moving air) has more pressure then fast moving air.
That is why an airplane flies or a yacht moves forward.
That is also why a self drainer (bailer) works on power boats.
Now the question is this; (see picture, above post)
If the diaphragm has 10 sq. feet and the difference in air pressure of only 1lbs p/f. this would mean that the total is 10lbs.
This also means that a 4lbs (2x) weight can be lifted at 12-1 o’clock, given an ob all the way down to 6 o’clock.
To suck air out (partly) of the right hand side of the wheel (diaphragm) is most likely possible using a open tube, without using too much energy.
At 50 revs per minute would equal about 100 km per hour for the tube to rotate, which would be the same as some filthy smoker (me) opening the car window a little bit to suck the air out of the car.
Like all of us (except the ones with a working wheel) think we may be on the right track, until we see our Hughes mistake and feel absolutely stupid.
Make me feel stupid EVG
I would like an answer to a question, if you have the time.
Air pressure difference, there are several ways to obtain this in my opinion.
Still air (or slow moving air) has more pressure then fast moving air.
That is why an airplane flies or a yacht moves forward.
That is also why a self drainer (bailer) works on power boats.
Now the question is this; (see picture, above post)
If the diaphragm has 10 sq. feet and the difference in air pressure of only 1lbs p/f. this would mean that the total is 10lbs.
This also means that a 4lbs (2x) weight can be lifted at 12-1 o’clock, given an ob all the way down to 6 o’clock.
To suck air out (partly) of the right hand side of the wheel (diaphragm) is most likely possible using a open tube, without using too much energy.
At 50 revs per minute would equal about 100 km per hour for the tube to rotate, which would be the same as some filthy smoker (me) opening the car window a little bit to suck the air out of the car.
Like all of us (except the ones with a working wheel) think we may be on the right track, until we see our Hughes mistake and feel absolutely stupid.
Make me feel stupid EVG
re: Too weird
Evg,
Your description above reminded me of a "Jet tube" suction gold dredge.
It will also work with air, A good vacuum cleaner can be made by attaching an air hose to a "Jet tube, The same effect can be created by a rotating wheel using a jet tube venturi.
Here is a link on suction dredges, scroll down and there is a chart that will tell tell you what a certain size will lift.
http://www.goldminershq.com/FORMS/modern1.htm
A Google search for "jet tube" will bring up some interesting topics on jet tubes used for forced breathing on infants.
Ralph
Your description above reminded me of a "Jet tube" suction gold dredge.
It will also work with air, A good vacuum cleaner can be made by attaching an air hose to a "Jet tube, The same effect can be created by a rotating wheel using a jet tube venturi.
Here is a link on suction dredges, scroll down and there is a chart that will tell tell you what a certain size will lift.
http://www.goldminershq.com/FORMS/modern1.htm
A Google search for "jet tube" will bring up some interesting topics on jet tubes used for forced breathing on infants.
Ralph
re: Too weird
Thanks rlortie
Your links gave me some other links, with good indications that the idea is not as stupid as it sounds.
Much appreciated EVG
P.s. One of the many links: http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/Ag/fluids/wflow3.htm
Just noticed that my reputation was downgraded. This gives me a good indication that this topic is no longer appriciated. If Scott could remove it I' be gratefull EVG
Your links gave me some other links, with good indications that the idea is not as stupid as it sounds.
Much appreciated EVG
P.s. One of the many links: http://www.physics.usyd.edu.au/Ag/fluids/wflow3.htm
Just noticed that my reputation was downgraded. This gives me a good indication that this topic is no longer appriciated. If Scott could remove it I' be gratefull EVG
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LustInBlack
- Devotee
- Posts: 1964
- Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:30 am
re: Too weird
Add one user to that 2/3 user count.. ;]
re: Too weird
LustInBlack
Thanks, as you would have realized the “Too Weird� topic is only there to look at other possibilities and 90% plus, members must have things that are unlikely to work going through their mind at certain times.
As far as I’m concerned, I don’t care who comes up with a working wheel, as long as someone does. I have been trying too long to think that any individual (me in particular) will have the answer (maybe Bessler was the exemption).
I also think that it would be more then plausible, that an answer to the working wheel may already be posted on the Besslerwheel website, the trouble is which idea needs that tweak to become “a working wheel�.
It would be nice if a member is smart enough to research the availability of known physics at the time of Bessler, as I belief that the answer would come from that timeslot and not from the present. We may be too influenced by our present knowledge, not to see the simplicity that existed in previous times. EVG
Thanks, as you would have realized the “Too Weird� topic is only there to look at other possibilities and 90% plus, members must have things that are unlikely to work going through their mind at certain times.
As far as I’m concerned, I don’t care who comes up with a working wheel, as long as someone does. I have been trying too long to think that any individual (me in particular) will have the answer (maybe Bessler was the exemption).
I also think that it would be more then plausible, that an answer to the working wheel may already be posted on the Besslerwheel website, the trouble is which idea needs that tweak to become “a working wheel�.
It would be nice if a member is smart enough to research the availability of known physics at the time of Bessler, as I belief that the answer would come from that timeslot and not from the present. We may be too influenced by our present knowledge, not to see the simplicity that existed in previous times. EVG
re: Too weird
Almost 2008 Is this THE YEAR?
Not many other posts, so here comes my “too weird� bi-weekly contribution.
Orange= Swinging arm with blue weight
Pivots from outer edge, weight (blue is stopped by green stopper, going down and grey stopper near centre going up).
The whole lot is one wheel
Arm can only swing minutely between the 2 stoppers.
Do the weights transfer any of their weight to different parts of the wheel? EVGWHEEL Enjoy the New Year and be nice too each other.
Not many other posts, so here comes my “too weird� bi-weekly contribution.
Orange= Swinging arm with blue weight
Pivots from outer edge, weight (blue is stopped by green stopper, going down and grey stopper near centre going up).
The whole lot is one wheel
Arm can only swing minutely between the 2 stoppers.
Do the weights transfer any of their weight to different parts of the wheel? EVGWHEEL Enjoy the New Year and be nice too each other.
re: Too weird
After the weighted arm has come to rest against either the green stopper or the grey stopper then the wheel will act exactly as if the weight is pinned solid to the wheel. When the weight is in free-fall between the stoppers then inertial momentum (CF) would be the only force upon the pivot point, but considering the configuration this force would be almost non-existent. So this leaves us with only the impact force against the stops. The impacts involve leverage vs. speed. The weight should drop at the same relative speed on both sides of the wheel. So we only need to look at leverage during impact. With the green stopper you get more impact force due to leverage but less speed because the middle of the lever is moving slower than the weight. With the grey stopper you don't get any leverage but you get full impact speed.
So this wheel boils down to whether slower impact speed with greater force is equal to faster impact speed with lesser force. I think we would find that they're equal.
So this wheel boils down to whether slower impact speed with greater force is equal to faster impact speed with lesser force. I think we would find that they're equal.