Your favorite part off the MTs or other old wheels

[AB Hammer]

Greetings all it is show and tell time.

I figured that we might want to break things down and take apart the MTs or other Wheels that we find favorite parts off of.
Then we can say why we like them.

I am starting with the arm weights off of MT 40, 68, and 69. The reason I like these is they tend to have less CF problems.

[Jon J Hutton]

I once built this with the 2 arms the results were great but I could not figure out how to build on it. I put a plumb bob on the end of a piece of treaded stock. The length of it all was a quarter inch less than the inside diameter of the inside of the rim. A weak rubber band kept the plumb bob a quarter inch off center held behind a wood screw. With one arm when I let it go at top dead center it would complete three revs by its own release from behind the screw, I could never figure out how to get it to relatch and release again. So I put it in the scrap pile.

JJH

[wikiwheel]

My favorite parts are the springs on MT60.

I can't figure how they are pulled down though...

[Stewart]

My favorite parts are the springs on MT60.

No. 60 is also one of my favourites. However, what I think you are referring to as springs are not springs. The springs are labelled 'B'. The items labelled 'C' & 'D' are linearly expanding air bags with a weight on the end (a pneumatic scissor mech., you might say). The bellow in each segment is joined to the air-bag in the same segment (the air can not escape). So, the long weight arms will push down on the bellows and extend the air-bags on one side of the wheel, and pull on the bellows and suck in the air-bags on the other side. A very ingenious design and definitely worthy of more than a casual glance IMO!

Stewart

[daxwc]

When you zoom in on the original mt 60 those so called "springs" remind me of spun cloth (suits) like on the bottom hammer men.

[AB Hammer]

daxwc

can you post a close up of the original mt60, for what you said sound more like an extending bellows pushing out an extra weight and then on the other side sucking it back in.

[jim_mich]

Close up view of original mt60 blown up then jpg file compressed for small size without losing detail.

[Stewart]

daxwc, can you post a close up of the original mt60, for what you said sound more like an extending bellows pushing out an extra weight and then on the other side sucking it back in.

It was me that was suggesting that. Jim has provided the picture, thanks - B are the springs, and C are the strange items in question that look like springs but are actually some sort of air-bag that can extend linearly and have weights on the end. The spiral looking nature of them may suggest that the bag is supported by some spring-like structure, but my point is that they don't necessarily have to be springs in order for the thing to 'work' (however, being springs they could assist on the pull in). The bellows blow and suck the bags out and in, with the springs (B) assisting on the push out. If you study the whole design with this information you should be able to see how it is meant to work now. I would also theorise that the design might be improved by latching the long levers and releasing them at the right moment (when they have maximum torque - i.e. horizontal) - the spring would 'fire' instantaneously and help the lever to shoot the weight out quickly.

It's a very clever design of Bessler's, showing the use of air in a closed system and slipped in there amongst other air designs that blow air onto turbines - it's easily overlooked.

Stewart

[AB Hammer]

Greetings Stewart, jim_mich, daxwc

And any others to work with the MT 60. I have posted on the community buzz for that Item with a blacksmiths point of view on bellows. Please check it out.

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2220

[wikiwheel]

Thanks Stewart. Actually I think the springs are the coiled expanded and contracted looking parts evenly spaced radially around the perimeter of the wheel.

The parts that look like clothes pin springs may or may not be bellows or another set of springs. The lines that look like the outline of bellows could just be cords.

At any rate, I've experimented with bellows and it's always the same story...weight has to be lifted and not let down.

Also, see how the ball weights move back and forth within their compartments? So which way is this device supposed to turn?

I say clockwise because the weights raise from 12-6 and on the other side they raise up from 6-12.

I made a model of the arm action of MT 60. If the wheel is run on one center and the weighted arms are on another center 1.25" off from the wheel and are supported by guides on the wheel, they move back and forth just like this drawing depicts.

The only thing 60 tells me is that Bessler actually did build a similar device or how else would he have known to draw it that way?

It by itself of course will never work, but I can appreciate the intelligence that went into trying it.

[AB Hammer]

When I first started looking to do PM my favorite was the FergusonsType machine. I still think it also has some merit to be examined with its counter weights and its back pull on the lower weight at 6 o'clock. (not shown in this drawing) The 6 o'clock pulls back to 5:30 that proves to be an effective movement with any extended weight in that location. I have tested this with my first wheel but its not enough but it still helps alot.

[AB Hammer]

So much has changed since I started this string awhile back. So much I have learned after several builds. I am looking at the Mt's once again to see which ones are now my favorites, after my knowledge has improved on this subject from experience.

[murilo]

For a guy like me - zero skilled - i can say to have done a deep and serious study about these ~180 degrees opposite levers.
The stuff was too rough, but I got very excited just before I try to apply some levers weight over the axle, what means '' neutral ground''.
I can say all my study was not conclusive.
Cheers. M. SP 09/09/09