The Solution To Bessler's Wheel

[Fletcher]

EDIT : my post seems rather redundant now, Dave got in just before me !

Hey, I'm reading between the lines here a bit - it seems to me that Dave doesn't want to go to the expense & trouble of a 'method' patent, which he has obviously thought long & hard about - that would mean probably entrusting the design & principle he has to second parties with the possibility of loosing control - I'm not sure he has even shared or critiqued it with anybody at all ? - that is of course his prerogative.

The 'method' patent route has a lot of merit but to be water tight would likely need some money spent on it to ensure it was placed in the right hands [you can write your own patent application but possibly could unwittingly trip yourself up, if it was your first time] - it does not matter whether you want to make squillions or licence it for free thereafter, it will require an initial & some ongoing expenditure - this is not to everybody's taste or means - bringing in partners to cover these extraneous costs is also not comfortable for everybody [especially if you're going to give it away freely which might really upset the funder].

Sometimes things can get complicated quickly & the best way to clear a room is just grab the cat by the tail & start swinging it around.

N.B. in the general sense, if you're clever enough to solve the riddle you're probably also clever enough to have worked through the issues & settled on a path that meets your needs.

I suspect Dave has already been thru most of this.

[BIBLEAL]

Lets play ball :

I do not need a working wheel, period. Of that , John Collins is right. The solution is too obvious.
(I am so sure of myself and its all in my head) Strike One

My current project is mostly a direct result of my interpretation of Parks Paper about Bessler. A Little Book interpretation ,which was discounted by so many ... ( Of course Alden Park , we all know this brilliant guy ,lol ... lol)
Strike two

Ralph can tell you I have been certain I had the solution several times but I was wrong .This time I know I am right.
(Yep been there ,I am positive I got it , No this time I got it , No this time I positively absolutely got it.
Foul ball

Only recently have I discovered the "principle" and it is right in front of everyone ....
(No it's not not a principle but if you knew it, you would not call it that. And
it is very well hidden . Very well hidden indeed. That's why no one up till now has found it in almost three hundred years.) .
Strike three

I have tried to apply this " principle' to other designs and am hard pressed to make it work. (on paper only)'
(bessler made a one way gravity engine and bi directional gravity engine wheels and also said that he had a number of other designs that worked as well. based on his "principle"
You just wacked your head with the bat.



BIBLEAL

[james kelly]

I don't understand all of this worry about who knows what first. If they expond on it they will be raked over the coals and called a liar.

[rlortie]

Alden Park:

http://www1.iwvisp.com/LA4Park/BesslerWheelPaperRTF.rtf

Your welcome :-)

Ralph

[DrWhat]

http://www1.iwvisp.com/LA4Park/

More info.

Damian

[Dave Roberts]

It is interesting. I have been honest and am ready to start my explanation but awaiting an email from John. I have been warned by many people that others are waiting with pen in hand to start writing patents and that is fine with me. Others will claim they had the principle (yes, principle, or action if the wording causes concern) first and I really don't care. If you have it, reveal it - let's quit playing games, I am willing to give you first shot at it.

Patent all you want, it will not stop individuals from making one for their own use. The sooner it is available, the sooner we stop polluting this earth. We should never had to wait almost 300 years for this revelation.

For those of you who are always negative, feel free to tear this apart too.

FYI - I am not a dabbler with no scientic knowledge, I was a Research Engineer for years with a major corporation.

[ssmyser]

Hello,
I too had a similar revelation about 4 months ago. I understand Dave's hesitation to reveal the principle, or to even say that 'one word' that would give it away.
So I would post my questions to Dave and Jon as this:

1) Does it involve looking at the AP wheel in a completely different way?

2) Do you suddenly understand why it hasn't been duplicated (and won't be easy to duplicate) even if someone today had the solution?

If your answers are both 'yes', I believe you have it. ...and without revealing anything. I truly hope that you have found the solution, and I wish you the best. -ssmyser

[coylo]

J. Collins wrote...

...that if anyone here read and understood my concept they would be quite certain that this was the solution. No need to make a working device, although definitely highly desirable, once you know the answer. That is why I am so sure that Dave Roberts has the solution, when you know - you really do know!.

I'm concerned with the way this thread is going... some members are getting caught up in all this excitement, less hype and more caution is needed.
You could have all the knowledge and experience in the world, and be the gravity wheel guru, but I would say that you really don't know, until a wheel is built, period!
It's just one of those things, something always pops up that you never thought or knew about, but probably should of at the time....d'oh!
I have built hundreds of wheels, two of which I thought were runners at one time. I had told those closest to me that I had 'done it', only to find out later that they were not fair tests.
Lesson learned.... I'll keep my mouth shut from now on, until I know for certain it's the real deal!

To John and others, maybe you do have the solution....who knows?
All I'm saying is beware of the hype, don't count your chickens before they hatch, n'all that.

Good luck.

[AB Hammer]

Dave Roberts

I PM you again, with my views on what you should do. But I am posting an alternative to help you get your credit if due. Put it in a book and publish the book, and copywrite it. This way your name will be upheld and your secrets and views will be out to all.

[rmd3]

I found that you can have a working "principle/action" very clear on paper only to find that it is incomplete due to where forces are actually felt on the wheel. In such a case, your "principle/action" is incomplete and (for all intents and purposes) useless. So be cautious...

Protect yourself (and your credibility) by building a wheel, or contract someone to do so for you.

-Randall

[Michael]

Use the same system of logic Einstiens mentor at the patent office taught him; always assume an argument or approach is flawed. Then look for where and how it is flawed. If you can't find a flaw...well there you go.
Also, use enery equations when researching your idea out on paper, it will save you thousands in hours of building and thousands in money spent.

[John Collins]

I think Dave should publish his principle as widely as possible with clear copyright notice attached, here on besslerwheel.com first. I still think it would be better to make a working model first because all our experience tells us that no one will take any notice unless a working model is produced either first or at the same time.

Of course the principle might lead to a successful creation of a working model and that would be good, but it would be a shame if Dave did not get full credit for the idea at leats.

I shall continue to work on my own version and hope to produce something useful as soon as I can.

Personally I am not interested in obtaining a patent although I fully understand Jim_mich's viewpoint, so for me a full public exhibition of the design principle and a working model would be the most I'd be willing to undertake.

Good luck Dave.

[bluesgtr44]

Hey Dave...I do hope you are right. I would be interested in more information, tried to E-mail you but it wasn't available when I clicked your name...

Whatever approach you take will be the right one. It's yours to take!


Steve
P.S. I sent a PM....sometimes I amaze myself with my own redundancies...;-)

[Techstuf]

“Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for?� - Robert Browning

[DrWhat]

Dave, a fair while ago I applied for a provisional patent on another one of my designs. I can tell you that the major clues Bessler left all syncronised into a solution. To me it was obvious it would work. The mechanisms matched, the sounds the wheel made matched. I was absolutely euphoric.

I then began constructing the wheel, in anticipation of that breakthrough. As I was building I noticed that there was a reverse force I had not anticipated. It was clear the device would not turn.

So once a gain a build is critical to prove it works.

I am happy to build your device, even to finance a patent for you PROVIDING IT WORKS.

If you wish to make it public, do so ASAP. I don't see any reason for stalling if this is the path you wish to take.

It is perhaps not wise to ask others to reveal their "solutions" prior to yours as they may think you are using a tactic to get confidential ideas out of the woodwork.

At the moment we still have a lot of excitement, but little substance. Good luck and I wish you well.

Damian