The Third Dimension and more

[AlanR]

Hi all,

1. As yet I cant recall seeing any wheel designs which utilize three dimensions. ie, all designs i have seen can be drawn from a front view perspective, with no actual use of the wheels "thickness" for any purpose except for the width of the components inside. Anyone have any links / references to any that do?

Sure gravity affects the X and "Z" dimensions the same (both are perpendicular to the downward direction of gravity) but I wonder if this remains a place (dimension) where our thoughts dont naturally consider to be of relevance in searching for the secret? by that I mean it seems obvious to think from a front-side up-and-down viewpoint, but not from a front-to-back perspective.

This stems from my current "thing" about utilizing Centripetal forces (see Centripetal/Centrifugal anomolies post).

2. Re the numerous clues "the hammer strikes, the dog leaves his kennel as far as his chain allows" (cant remember them exactly) etc.. Anyone have any solid ideas on which these? (listed in Clues on home page from memory)

3. Co-operation. Given that the secret will be discovered - are you in favour of patents, copyright protection etc.. (and all the associated murky conspiracy theories) or "open-source" invention?. I'm for the latter and would gladly reveal the secret (if I knew it) to as many people as possible, ensuring the highest chance of benefiting all. I'm sure theres lots about this sort of thing on the old forum, but just wondered.

Regards

Alan (AlanR)

[Jonathan]

First, I have seen at least one that I knew immediately wouldn't work, i'll post it here just for example in a minute.
Second, I've tried to ignore the clues, given the linguistic changes with time and possible translation errors, plus they could be given by him throw people off the right track and to make them go insane[:D].
Third, I prefer the open source kind, with an information blitzkreig to boot, that way, in case any one or part of the many conspiracy theories are true, There will be no point to killing me to keep me quite or something, because many other people will know everything I know in probably two hours (after being absolutely certain that I won't make a fool of myself with a stupid idea that doesn't work, but only seems to).

[Jonathan]

Here's that link:
http://www.ormus.ws/~pyramid/perpetualmotion.html
BTW, it doesn't work because it doesn't matter where the center of mass is, what matters is where the mass exerts it's influence (hinges in this case), which for this machine and many others, never changes.

[murilo]

AlanR, hi. For a few times I apoak about 3D wheels in this forum. I wanted to ignite some interest on this... you are the first to react. In the past I have done some draws in this shape, and they are interesting. You may imagine a wheel with articulated multi-levers all around with their weights and that these levers are ''conduced'' by external means, or rails. This wheel is very symilar to ''others'' around, but this external conducing rails (that don't touch to wheel, just to levers) will force to the levers as to behavie just like the shuted ambrella's staffs, or sticks, *in the desired quadrant*, i.e, in near 180°(theoryc ideal!) of vertical. If in the shutted position (in wheel's body) they find where to touch and there stay uphold, the mass in that quadrant will be much near to the wheels prolongated chaft, and you know what this means. A side view in vertical at this wheel will show to you symilarity to ''half-sphere'', or a spacial projection at a side (not a single plane wheel). If in future I get some means, this is a project that I'm going to go deep in. I hope you'll understand to my words.Regards. Murilo nov/28

[AlanR]

Thanks Murilo,

Could you do a diagram? It sounds interesting but I think I would need a diagram to fully understand what you mean.

Regards

[murilo]

AlanR, I'll try a diagram in the next week. If I find no way to scam to it,I'll ask for your fax. It's very simple and as many of inventions, this will need some more invention over. As you know, the maximal resistance, or momentum, is found at 90º between lever and wheel's shaft; so the IDEAL position for to put this lever for to reduce to this torcion should be to put the lever in paralel to the shaft. This paralel position seens impossible to me, but a reduction of the angle from 90º to, p.e., 45º, should be enought fine for to break to wheels equilibrium. Look that the lever, in any position, must find where to touch, or REST, its weight inside to wheel's armature, and at each angle will correspond a different wheel's radius. Short rest radius will correspond to smaller resistance. Regs.
Murilo nov/29
''Will be thirst who's not a fountain.''

[murilo]

As promissed, here I am for to deal a 3D wheel. As ever if you want to understand me, youll reach to what I mean. A very simple diagram shows just a single cut at the meadle of the wheel I have in mind. Any one may test this set as it was a set like a 2 arms single balance. The un-balancing is impressive, obvious and strong.
Some points are marked:
A- horizontal position set to fall
B- '' '' '' to rise
C- lever armed for maximal momentum (important )
D- '' '' '' minimal '' ( important )
E- main wheel' shaft with roller bearings F and G
For to work by gravity natural fall, at 6H clock position, each positioned lever, one by one, must have changed its position, from 90° to shaft for a paralel, or near to, state. OPEN DISCUSSION TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN: how to do this 90° changing? The 2 sides of the levers should be used, one with the weight and the other at oposite, both at same time and with just an unic movement, I mean, not gradualy but as a shot. This wheel may result in a over-unit device, because each lever will have near to 180° for to be in un-balance. Care mus be taken to centrifugal force. This is a low velocity assembling.
Please be kind to note: as I said more ideas and inventing are needed on. Generally to invent I care first to *what* and later to *how*.
( now I hope I'll be able to attache my file here. ) Regs. Murilo dec/04

[murilo]

I WANT TO BE THE FIRST ONE TO SAY THIS: THIS 3D IDEA IS VERY SYMILAR TO ''MT30'' FROM BESSLER, THING THAT I COULD REACH JUST IN THIS MOMENT, ALTHOUGH I WAS THINKING IN A 8 OR 10 ELEMENTS. PLS, BELIEVE ME IF YOU WANT! A 3D wheel may also come from any adaptions on MT 12, 13, 14 and 15. :(( 04/dec

[Jonathan]

I like the idea, but the major flaw I see is that even though the position, ie distribution, of the weight has changed, the radial distance at which the weight of the weights is applied is the same on both sides. Although I have been wishy-washy about this before, I now have no doubt that this is a prerequisite for this type of wheel.

[murilo]

I do understand to what you mean, but I'm sure you didn't get to the stuff. Of sure a wheel like this is not ready... there are some points and details to discuss... but the principle I show in my draw, so as MT30, works very well if I mount a set like a 2 arms balance, wich may be assumed as it was the two opposite horizontal quadrants in a wheel, at 90º from shaft. I don't have to argument and nieder to enunciate... there are facts. Please try this balance set. At least you'll learn. At the contrary than what I firstly thought, the ''arms'', near by to the weight ball, don't have to ''rest'', or touch at the main wheel's structure. This was a surprize to me during the test, I remember. This is very possible in a 3D wheel, and not in a single plan one. Bessler drew just a double mechanism at MT30, but I visualize many and non-simultaneous switch. If the switches happen at vertical (in and out), the ''work'' will be of bigger gain. Did some one search before this MT30 set? I first saw to it at two past days. M. SP 06/dec

[Jonathan]

I'm sorry, but I couldn't follow your post. One thing I think I understood is that you said that the weight doesn't literally have to rest on the wheel. If that's what you said, I agree. The lever arm in the first attachment is in balance (assuming the wiggly part is rigid and both arms are weightless), what I mean is that where a weight is and where it exerts it's force is sometimes different, as shown is the second attachment. I think everyone agrees with that.

[murilo]

HELP WANTED! PLS SOMEONE HELP ME TO EXPLAIN TO JONATHAN THAT THIS IS A 3D WHEEL AND THERE ARE FATAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN A LEVER AT 90º FROM SHAFT AND OTHER IN COUNTER POSITION IN PARALLEL TO SAME SHAFT. Of sure gravityis in the game but its momentum is changed if applied to this levers' set. In the case I show, gravity is the main mandatory ''source'', but free applied to two second sepparated momentuns. The draw Jonathan posted has nothing to see with. This is one of the draws I thought and said at months that should be changed to 3D. The fall is managed, twisted and conducted. Please, experiment to this balance as I said! HELP! M. :₢ dec/07

I'm sorry, but I couldn't follow your post. One thing I think I understood is that you said that the weight doesn't literally have to rest on the wheel. If that's what you said, I agree. The lever arm in the first attachment is in balance (assuming the wiggly part is rigid and both arms are weightless), what I mean is that where a weight is and where it exerts it's force is sometimes different, as shown is the second attachment. I think everyone agrees with that.

[Jonathan]

Yes, I understand murilo, no need to shout. I think you don't understand my point, that your idea, and MT30, use novel ways to move the weight, but end up equivalent to a 2D wheel, that is why I went off on this seemingly off topic tangent.
However, since your picture was 2D, I may have misunderstood what it showing. I'll have to go back and look at it again.

[Jonathan]

Hey, I think I did misunderstand! Now I think that this might be promising. Sorry!

[murilo]

I did shout just a little. :° I'm glad now you got. If you make a little set for to try, you'll really like it. I was thinking if the weights could be iron + copper coils (in epoxi) for to be actuated electricaly from outside, as solenoids. Anyhow I tend to guess that wheels are not the best way to get important power. Course I'm sure they will work somehow someday, but I'm not sure about an impressive power gain. The elipse, the most near to a spiral geometry will be much better. I bet! (you know what I'm talking about!) Thanks for your kind quoting. Regs. M. dec/08