alsetalokin - OCAL - WhipMag device

[fatspidr]

Hi All,

For the past several days, I've been following a new development in the Steorn Forum.

It seems that two of the forum members have been collaborating on a magnet motor design.

One of the members, (named overconfident, or OC), literally dreamed the concept. The other member, alsetalokin (a cool nic, spell it backwards to see what I mean, otherwise known as AL), has some skills in device construction, so he took on the project.

The device is supposed to have a rotor with 8 bar magnets around the rim that magnetically interact with 13 freewheeling, diametrically magnetized cylinder stator magnets. OC wanted AL to find a way to do some timing on the stator magnets that would allow them to bounce back and forth to overcome the sticky spots with the least interference. The picture of the device with all the stator magnets is here:

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/noc6.jpg

A few nights ago, AL was playing around with the device in different configurations when he noticed that it was showing interesting behaviour.

So, he left 3 of the stator magnets in place, spun the rotor, and then was trying to spin one of the stator magnets faster. Problem was, he was spinning it in the wrong direction.

The way he describes the interaction between the rotor magnets and the stator magnets is a Gearwise interaction, which, simply put, means that if the rotor's going counterclockwise, the stator magnets would turn clockwise, pretty much what you'd expect the reaction to be between 2 meshed gears.

As I said, he was playing around, when he mistakenly spun one of the stator magnets anti-gearwise. That's when odd things began to happen.

The antigearwise stator found some synchronization with the rotor, some sort of domino effect in the magnetic fields made the stator and the rotor want to speed up.

Problem was, the increase in speed would become too much, and the anti-gearwise stator would fall out of synch, so AL put a couple of aluminum cylinders (which he jokingly calls Magneto Kinetic Judson Dampers) on each side of the anti-gearwise stator to provide a place where the magnetic field would be changed/absorbed, which had the effect of limiting the speed of the rotor and the antigearwise stator.

So now, when he spun the rotor, and then spun the single stator in an anti-gearwise fashion, the two would hook up, accelerate a bit and find a comfortable speed to rotate.

While the rotor and anti-gearwise stator magnet were rotating, the other two gearwise stator magnets would be rotating the way you would imagine they should. So, Al would then stop these two gearwise stator magnets, which probably were throttling down a bit of energy in their requirement to interact with the rotor magnets, and the rotor and the anti-gearwise stator would increase in speed again. The ratio of the speeds between the antigearwise stator and the rotor were estimated to be 4:1.

AL recorded the interesting behaviour, uploaded it to youtube for a short while to help answer some questions of the Steorn Forum readers, and then took it down. But not before another person copied the tape and resubmitted it to youtube, where it's now viewable by all.

The original was a bit on the dark side, so the brightness and contrast were changed a bit so now it's more visible.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=j9UKcGTcfwo

Both AL and OC don't claim (yet) that this is an overunity device. AL doesn't know why it works, and he's trying his best to find a reason for it to work. He even states that if he saw it on youtube, he wouldn't believe what he was seeing.

Now, while it's interesting to look at this video, and it is interesting to follow its study on the Steorn Forum and the other sites (i.e., overunity.org), the reason I mention it here is that AL found something when he was doing something that didn't make sense.

He was spinning the stator magnet in the wrong direction. He says it was a mistake.

In the Bessler Wheel world, is there something similar that could be backwards? Is there some sort of opposite interaction that would synch up with added effect, while serving as a speed controller? Is this what Bessler meant when he said "the cart's in front of the horse"?

In conclusion, this video seems like less of a hoax than anything I've seen yet, and the pages and pages of accompanying real time story that's being written on the Steorn Forum and elsewhere make it an interesting development indeed.

To top things off, there are drawings, sketches, parts lists and other various items being put together for replication. Since most of the replicators will be receiving their diametrically opposed cylinder magnets (the oddball component that's most likely not in everyone's junk drawer) in the next few days, we should expect to see if this is real, if it can be duplicated.

If it is real, the effect in the magnetic interactions might apply to a gravity wheel. Something to think about.

[AB Hammer]

fatspidr

I saw a simular video done with legos but the middle magnets spun not the outer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcy0tedYBMg&NR=1

In the Bessler Wheel world, is there something similar that could be backwards? Is there some sort of opposite interaction that would synch up with added effect, while serving as a speed controller? Is this what Bessler meant when he said "the cart's in front of the horse"?

IMO the prime mover (the horse) moves the cart (the over balancing weights)

[fatspidr]

Alan,

I saw the lego motor as well. I wasn't impressed. Add to that, as far as everything's concerned, the lego motor video is a dead end. There's no interaction with the builder, there's no detailed instructions for replication. My Hoax meter registers much higher with the lego motor than it does with the OCAL WhipMag device.

My "Cart before the Horse" reference was about Bessler's comment on MT 20.

"No. 20: Here the previous levers work somewhat more peculiarly and raise up special weights and turn outward to the over balance. For this reason side A is always heavier, my friend supposed but I denied. I then reminded him to harness the horse in front."

- Johann Bessler

[AB Hammer]

In history there are times you do put the horse behind the cart, like if you are going down a steep hill the horse will dig in and the cart will go down slowly, and on larger wagons you used the team and pulleys to lower the wagon. I used that statement in an out of text manner but if you are looking at Bessler it might be worth it for more ideas.

As for the legos it only takes the correct set to copy it. But to tell the truth I still look at magnets of that manner as toys. I have known of many magnet motors and as a kid I did one as a motor for my science class and got it to make full revolutions before the cardboard tor. I did get an A for it and my Dad was happy. He use to be a Navy medic and worked with the first astronaut's, heck I was named after Alan Shepard. My Dad use to talk about the perpetual motion competitions they had as well back then, but I had forgotten about them for over 25 years until I moved home and was challenged. That is what got me started in this today. I wish I could talk high tech like some of the people here, but I am just a blacksmith and I talk in old terms and that seem to be how I look at things as well.

[Patrick]

Fatspidr;
Thanks for the excellent summary and comments on the OC MPMM. I asked an engineer friend about it and his first comment was that there may be a rotating magnetic field under the surface of the table. Anyway, I think the video is very interesting, and look forward to replication attempts.

Here is a different experiment with a sub-surface magnetic field.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqEd3KHuEHU

best regards--patrick

[LustInBlack]

OC MPMM ... OOopps ... At 10 seconds..

Why!? What happened!?

He forgot to switch on the battery!?


Also, when it starts spinning, his hand is out of the camera view, and for too long compared to when he tries to spin it ..
It's too predictable that it will start at this exact moment.. It's like a pseudo-random generator, you know it will happen ..


hmm...

I'm sceptic!


*Edit: After reviewing the video, it sounds almost real, until he says: The assembly it speeding up.. At this moment, it sounds like an electrical motor doing work.. However, at that moment he seems to be a bit more happy, that confuses me, because he didn't show much amazement before in the video..


** ReEdit:
I'm browsing thru the posts of "NikolaTesla" reversed, and, this sounds familiar, I was on powerou.com before, and a guy named AlaskaStar came by with a way to create H2 with a useful byproduct, he never told exactly what it was and it sounded as if he really was onto something.. Anyways, I get the same feeling about this guy..

Maybe it's true, maybe he doesn't realize what happens..

My theory, which is probably a naive attempt of myself to explain what happens, but anyway ..

The magnetic fields happens to create a Chaotic function that stays "in synch" (a chaotic attractor of some sort) and during a certain time, it happens that the input signal doesn't interrupt the in-phase/resonance effect.. After a while, it becomes out of synch (quite evidently).. And the chaotic function collapses into a simple linear function ..

A chaotic function depends on initial value of the function.. These specific values may be hard to come by in a system with complex interacting, maybe that's why it doesn't always starts .. Maybe at a certain RPM it's easier to come by with a match and that morphs the function into a chaotic attractor which happen to be determined by the initial value passed to it.. Which is probably not computable ..


Well, that might sound quite sci-fi, I'm proud of it .. 8]

[10x]

Been watching this one. i see a lot of replications, and find they all assume they can match, or it does not mater on the rotor magnets.

Yet when i go back and read what Al did, he was using a view film to look at the fields while building.

A simple look at his device and statements made show that this would not be easy to replicate.

Both the rotor and stator system would have to be adjustable to get the right field layout, so far I have not seen an attempt to do such.

Things that go against this being real are:
1 guy was being harassed by a user. May have faked the item to mess with his head.

2 supposedly had to move things around in mm to get it to work as he did.
Yet his views of the item show no place to do such.

3 Worked in a lab and did not see what this effect could have any value????
Thing for it being real.
The whole layout and method of showing it. His own scepical view that some thing else was causing the effect other than magnetic and kinetics.

I can say one thing this guy does make the history books on a self drive thing with it. LOL And as usual he is already being called a fraud.

Lets see what relates to here.
eight cylinders (Magnets) Interesting ehh