So just what was a "warped board"?

[Mak#1]

Ralph; No disrespect intended, I know you have many irons to the fire, not unlike myself with trying to run two business' and remodel my house, I feel like your avatar, running in circles ( or would that be squares)?

[axel]

My hope is that John has been spurred to go out and find this guy again, get the letter, publish it here in its original language, and prove me wrong.

I'm already on it Axel.

JC

Then we'll leave it at that for now then.

I don't really need to see it or to know what Fischer described to Liebniz.

This issue of a "researcher" is only for a business concern I have for later.

Axel

[Fletcher]

Wolff > Leibnitz

As an aside - I took a quick look thru Percy Verance's 'Perpetual Motion' - in his book he quotes Dircks quite allot - thought I might find Wolff's reference to warped boards in there, but so far no luck finding anything about it.

[ovyyus]

Sounds like Wolff's quote about "slightly warped" boards needs to be stricken from the record?

[John Collins]

I think it should be amended to 'elongated' but in my opinion the rest of the letter is valid. Although I can't provide a reference to the letter's whereabouts I have no doubt of its authenticity and I have no reason to think the researcher made it up.

I've written to some museums requesting information on the exact location of all of Wolff's correspondence and will follow up with a request for copies of those letters written on the date in question.

I'll post the information when I get it.

JC

[DrWhat]

Do any of you wish to provide an interpretation of the word "elongated" and what it could possibly mean in the context of Bessler's wheel?

[hansvonlieven]

G'day DrWhat and all,

It appears to me as useless to speculate on the meaning of a word after it has been translated from a different language.

In a translation you have the author and the translator to contend with. The translator does not necessarily understand what the author is talking about and might pick the wrong interpretation from a number of words which might be applicable.

Until we see the whole passage in the original we only see what the translator meant, not necessarily what Wolf said.

Hans von Lieven

[DrWhat]

Thanks Hans, great to see we are both in Sydney.

I understand what you are saying.

The interesting thing is that if back then I could see the frame of the wheel (radial arms made of wood etc) between the slits, I would be saying just that. But to say "weights... landed on elongated (long) boards", makes me think that there had to be long radial arms WITHIN the radial arms of the frame of the wheel, and that these arms were long. It doesn't give away much but may add to the list of clues.

Damian

[hansvonlieven]

G'day Damian,

You see, the term elongated bothers me. To make any sense it requires a frame of reference, like elongated beyond point "A", or something of that nature. On its own it is meaningless. This is one of the reasons why I want to see the original.

Hans

BTW I am in Tempe, maybe we can have a beer together one of these days.

[ovyyus]

I tend to think that until the translation is defined and qualified, which is clearly not possible without the original letter, then creative guesswork simply adds more noise and confusion.

[hansvonlieven]

Exactly my point Bill, though you said it better :-)

[DrWhat]

Hans, a beer would be great. We can arrange something in the future. I'm near Chatswood.

Cheers.

[DrWhat]

Going back briefly my comment on an old post re the name "Percy Verance" above, it is clear that the author was using a false name (a play on the word "Perseverance"). I wonder who the real author was. Were they embarrased to reveal their true name for fear of being mocked? Maybe the author was a person of established repute.

[Fletcher]

That's an interesting take on the name Dr What - a sort of Dr Who ;7)

Two things - the book is available on PDF - IINM someone linked it from an American library a while back for free down load [might have been Ralph ?] - the second thing is that Percy is definitely not pro-PM [i.e. the strict definition], & this comes thru loud & clear when you read the various chapters - obviously he has an interest however in OU or FE & IIRC he says he was an engineer so probably had a reputation to maintain hence the professional distancing form the flakey fringe - nevertheless, a good informed read with a chapter or two on Bessler & his wheels.

[John Collins]

"Percy Verance" was Henry Dircks C.E., LL.D. who wrote the two volumes of "Perpetuum Mobile or a History of the search for Self-motive Power from the 13th to the 18th Century", both of which I have.
Like Fletch I searched the volumes for Wolff's words but he is only briefly mentioned twice.

Like others I think that speculating about the word 'elongated' is fruitless, nevertheless I think the researcher might have meant 'longer' pieces of wood.

JC