Excess Weight

[Quartz]

Excess:

a: the state or an instance of surpassing usual, proper, or specified limits:
b: the amount or degree by which one thing or quantity exceeds another:


What did bessler mean buy Excess Weight, I think it’s important to define this as much as possible. I would like every one to add what they can to this.


Did Bessler mean extra weight?
Were these weights used to counter balance other weights?

Was Bessler referring to the weights momentum ?

Or was he referring to Centrifugal force?

[Gregory]

Nobody knows for sure what Bessler meant by the term excess weight, but most presumable he meant a weight which can apply its force through some way at some points, without taking it back later.

So it is like making a weight rise for less in some way,
Or having a force which works for us for less price than needed to create & maintain it,
Or something...

Although he wasn't clearly referring to anything, I think most likely he meant a falling weight which could be lifted for a smaller price. Such a thing would be like a free lunch!

[Mak#1]

Quartz; I think he meant there was always an excess of weight on the descending side of the wheel, I also dont think the weights moved a great deal just my humble opinion1

[Quartz]

Gregory / mak

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I’ am trying to narrow down the possibilities of this term (Excess Weight). We need to define this term. Bessler just didn’t pull this term out of his hat. In besslers time what would this term have meant to scholars or learned people.
I would like to here all the possible meanings of Excess Weight.
What I’ am saying is that he observed his principle working in a particular way and named it accordingly.

Ken

[AB Hammer]

I would say simply the amout of overbalance compaired to the negative side of the wheel. IMO

[Quartz]

@ Alan

Do you always play it safe lol
Good job.

Mak
You have to rule that one out, Bessler said that moving the weights out from the center even a little is not the way.
Ken

[Quartz]

So if moving the weights out from the center even a little is not the way then what’s left?

1: Weights used to counter balance other weights

2: using the momentum of weights

3: Centrifugal force

4: pulsing

I’am sure others can think of more, please feel free to list them. As for my self I like number 1

Ken

[Fletcher]

Ken .. Bessler used different terms in different texts to describe his asymmetric force principle that caused the wheel to be continually unstable & revolve trying to find stability [which it couldn't because the asymmetric force kept it uneven or unbalanced, so to speak] - sometimes he used, excess weight, preponderance, excess impetus IIRC - in my mind, at least, excess weight refers not necessarily to overbalance by weight, per se - we can all do that but then once the wheel shifts to find its PQ [balance or keel position] we have to shift a weight all over again - in this context I interpret excess weight as in excess force, as a weight is indeed a force measured on a scale.

FYI - The Penguin English Dictionary:

preponderant : adj 1. occurring in greater number or quantity [that fits the straight overbalanced wheel scenario which is obvious at a superficial level] 2. having superior weight, force or influence, predominant [force or influence - adds another less obvious/deeper dimension to what he might mean].

Impetus is from the Latin - noun, 1a. a driving force. b. an incentive or stimulus. 2. in physics, the energy possessed by a moving body.

There seems a very good case to say that the wheels contained an element of impetus i.e. driving force from impact or impulse [more efficient that impact] - IMO, that may be a residual or secondary effect within the wheel, so that no motion of force generated by dynamic movement was wasted & was used to further support the direction of rotation rather than hinder it.

As I said, I simply justify it as asymmetric force to one side of the wheel which has the effect of keeping it unstable & so thereby accumulating momentum as it accelerates up to max rpm - N.B. IMO, this asymmetric force is temporary or diminishing as rpm increases because if it were a true PM machine with a constant one-sided force produced it would accelerate until it had structural failure & flew apart - there even seems to be evidence that even under load it worked hard to maintain its upper threshold rpm [or close to it] which might indicate that a load bled momentum from the wheel for external work but also allowed the wheel to operate at or near its most efficient range.

JMO's.

[Quartz]

JMO's.

That was veary well written thank you for that.

Ken

[Quartz]

JMO's.

Just so I understand your saying the system acts as though its chasing its self trying to catch up but never can, like a dog that chases its tail. leaning out and gently pulling back like the rhythm of an ocean wave.

Ken

[Fletcher]

hmmm ... like a dog chasing his tail - lol - yes, in a sense.

Let me put it another way - everything on the surface of the earth wants to achieve its lowest Potential Energy state, under the influence of gravity - so when you stand a broom stick [dowl rod] upright on the concrete, if you are patient, you can get it to balance there with its CoG at the highest vertical position possible, & its stable provided nothing upsets its balance - that is one state, but for the rest of the time it wants to fall over & get its CoG as low as possible to the ground - this is where it is most stable - it's also why chairs usually have 4 legs rather than 3 etc.

In this case, it appears to me, that Bessler's wheels could not align their CoG beneath the wheel axle to get desired stability but at or near that instant of alignment [or balance] a force knocked it of its perch, so to speak - in essence, IMO, the axle center of rotation could not vertically coincide with the CoG for extended periods & it became unstable again producing torque & rotation.

[Quartz]

JMO's.

I now understand exactly what your saying and have to say I never thought about it that way, you have given me much to think about, you have a very sound understanding of how Bessler’s wheel may have worked and I wonder just how far from the truth you really are.

Thank you JMO's.


Ken

[ovyyus]

So if moving the weights out from the center even a little is not the way then what’s left?

1: Weights used to counter balance other weights

2: using the momentum of weights

3: Centrifugal force

4: pulsing

5. Weights move around the periphery of the wheel only.

[Mak#1]

And to think that all this time I thought you were Fletcher, lol Quartz or Ken which do you prefer? Who said anything about moving weights out a little from the center, I didnt, and I dont think thats exactly what Bessler said either, On the contrary why not move them in small increments from the outer edge.

[Quartz]

mak

Your right

I went back and reread your post I'am sorry I Misunderstood. won't happen again lol

Ken