Unlike all other ?

[Gill Simo]

these weights, on the contrary, are the essential parts, and constitute the perpetual motion itself; since from them is received the universal movement

Hello people: Please correct me but it seems, has always seemed, that most, if not all are looking for some kinda gravity wheel?
An axle which presents gravity with some inbalance to act upon?
Straight forward gravity transfered to motion stuff?
The above certainly suggests that, especially as it goes on to mention gravity, no possible C of G etc ..but still, it sounds more akin to a motion to gravity device than gravity to motion doesn't it?
PM, should it exist would be a force/energy wouldn't it?
These weights constitute the PM `itself`....the energy/force....since from them is `received` the universal movement.
That's the weights receive the energy, PM, in the obvious form, motion.
This energy/motion is then contained around an axle & hey presto gravity flows...not just there, ready to act, flowing, with nowhere to go?.
That's a transfer of universal movement to gravity to movement in truth.
A gravity generator, not a gravity cheater?
And....your point Gill?
Ummmmm.........that many are still perhaps too intent in scrapping around at the bottom of the wrong barrel? Looking for a way to cheat gravity is a nonsense like any attempt to cheat nature? Attempting to reproduce something that clearly already exists in nature makes more sense?
Errrr....Look for a movement? Instead of looking at mechanical principles?
Is looking for a movement so impossible? Looks kinda piss easy obvious to me but maybe I'd better keep to the medication 'cos any kinda suggestion that some new understanding of energy might be involved and he must be mad....there's nowhere to put the screwdriver right?
Lol.....as my kids and most of humanity now say.....and now me, ahhhhhh.
A universal movement? What chance it's two dimensional, around an axle?
As good as none, exactly the same chance that we'll find a solution via that route.
It has to be a loop of course, so it ain't one dimensional is it?
No, it's 3D for sure and uniform you'd imagine?
Not some 3D racetrack surely?
And how many uniform 3D motions are there?
Just the one....the spiral/helx/spring.....
The wonderful speed of flight performed by Bessler's weights.........a looped spiral seems prime candidate to me but then I imagine there to be some simple, serene dance oiut there that expresses energy in a more original form than we can currently express it....PM I call it.
And finally, how to recreate that dance?
Think the only universal movement that you know of, looped and study both Bessler's wheel engraving and the Cairo Flower Bowl.
I've been diong this for a good number of years now and from time to time begging others here to see the sense in it, with no success.
Build it then is the usual, one or two replies but you fail to appreciate that this exercise is exactly as it would be....it's PM, simple, right under our noses but semmingly impossible to find. As JB said.....easy to recreate but a devil of a job to get the weights to move in the correct fashion.......
I've done my fair share of imagining to get this far....but it still requires the greatest imaginary leap of all time to see that I was right.
A 2D drawing of something that I'm assuming 3D and a photo of something, no dimensions, that I'm assuming is a futuristic version....and some notion that some form of looped spiralling motion occurs between two of these 3D discs.
The SW of England currently suffers an acute shortage of ping pong balls thanks to my trying to crack it, never mind build it.....Ebay is also under threat!
I'm bored now so I bet you must be....but I'm gonna do a part two to impart what years of ballsing around has come up with thus far.
And hopefully someone might one day join me....over here...in this barrel?
Ciao/Gill

[KAS]

Gill,

I can relate to your suggestion that the 3rd dimension may be be the key to this anomaly.
I've never really given it much brain time however as the only computer models I can create is limited to 2D.

A while back, I did post a sketch (see attached) which went some way toward your helical/rotational motion principle.
It involved a suspended weight sub system that turned as the wheel rotated to enable a weight to continually displace itself to one side.

The weight (centre plate) is suspended from 4 cords that twist on the vertical to change its position and reset or twist the lower cords of the sub system in readiness for the next movement.
The result is that the weight always positions itself to a bias profile.

I never really tried it out for real however as I had other irons in the fire at the time.

Perhaps I should re-open the concept.

Kas

[jim_mich]

The first Gera wheel was about 4 inches thick. It used thin boards to hide the inner workings, so the inside working mechanism had to be maybe 3-1/2 inches of maximum thickness. This almost rules out any 3D movement.

The second Draschwitz wheel was 6 inches thick, which was still rather thin for a 3D movement.

The third Merseburg wheel was about 11.15 inches thick and the last Kassel wheel was 18 inches thick. Both were covered with cloth. This would be enough room for limited 3D movement.

[primemignonite]

KAS,

That little device you have drawn I find very clever.

From what I can make out of the most likely action, it depends upon the dropping of both weight platforms to achieve the desired rotation, and that means, to below the center of balance as well as to the right, which means in-turn, that the combined COB will seek the bottom point of quietation, never gaining enough momentum to make it up all the way, and then re-cycle.

This theme of defeat is absolutely CONSTANT, and if Bessler found a loop-hole allowing for avoidance of it, then it was a near-magical one, which may be denied us!

As usual, b---h Mother Nature is constantly on-guard to spoil our fun! She is not nearly so nice as Lady Luck is, who DOES occassionally throw to us a bone of consolation.

James

[DrWhat]

Nicely said James!

[wheelrite]

I agree with jim that the wheels are reported to be too thin for any great 'side' movement. And I think any benefit from that would require a significant displacement relative to the diameter of the wheel.
Regards
J

[jupter]

best dance i have seen
http://www.ursach.ch/Bessler/bessler_e.php

[axel]

I am in the process of building a more refined version of my wheel and yes, there is motion of the weights on the Z-axis also.

Gill Simo, question--I have read your recent posts and they cause me to wonder if you may have some sort of plants growing nearby...that require heat lamps?? Just my opinion and concern.

Axel

[KAS]

From what I can make out of the most likely action, it depends upon the dropping of both weight platforms to achieve the desired rotation, and that means, to below the center of balance as well as to the right, which means in-turn, that the combined COB will seek the bottom point of quietation, never gaining enough momentum to make it up all the way, and then re-cycle.

James

James,

I think you are right about it acting below the centre of gravity.
I have made a rudimentary complete sub system and it works exactly as the drawing.
At the vertical (6 and 12 o'clock), the weight appears to lift, but this is an illusion as there is no lifting taking place.
At 12 and 6, the weights simply swings to the descent side maintaining a lower circular path below the axle line.
I think this may prove crucial with a multi sub systems design as in addition to the obvious weight displacement on the horizontal, the weights at the vertical also maintain a bias position.
The weight only rotates 90deg on the sub system to achieve the full transfer and not 180deg as one would expect.

I think I might give this idea some serious build time.

You never know!

Kas

[broli]

best dance i have seen
http://www.ursach.ch/Bessler/bessler_e.php

Wow that guy sure made sure that every metaphorical description by Bessler was used :p. Did this got discussed before?

[wheelrite]

Its a great page, and good thinking, the guy has a talent there. Having said that, as much as I really like it, I for some reason just do 'go with it', I dont know if its fairly high degree of complexity or what. I would love him to build it and prove me wrong though.
Regards
Jon

[jupter]

# has this got discussed before? #
yes this was looked at a year ago and who ever thought this up has got me still thinking about it.
would be fun to try and build it /first attempt was with too wheels and a drum ring . the planetary gear set up went no where so if i try again ill start there and work my way out .it seems to me that 80 % of this thing is around the axil and this axil does one thing. kick start it... most would say it will not work and that is true . yet to learn what is going on while doing it.
that is the thrill in all are wheels
we still learn something thousands of times we just need" one that works"
just my thoughts and opinions
jupter

[JohnnyD]

If the helix is the way to go, this may explain why Bessler covered the weights and only allowed people to feel under the cloth, as it's possible that the holes in the weights were threaded.

It's possible that the weights, when falling, would use the thread on a threaded bar to delay it's fall and when turned over to fall the other way the thread would retract somehow, giving a smooth surface for the weight to slide on.

If there were two weights on opposite sides of the wheel running parallel to each other (sliding top to bottom) and connected with rods, then one would fall slowly, the other would fall quickly. This would cause an offset that could be used in some way.

Just a thought!

JohnnyD