Ralph wrote:Should that one "Besslerfish" be caught and landed, do you feel it would be fair to share with the number of members who have never participated?
Share the fish with everyone.
Why would you want recognition for someone else landing the Besslerfish simply because you baited their hook? Whoever actually lands it can have all the recognition they think they deserve. The reward for everyone IS the fish :)
If one was to create a way to sustain motion, what category would this fall under if it could only be used to power its self? How much importance’s would this be to us.
I would love to here your thoughts
Ken
All material motion requires a source of energy, a body to store the energy, and the energy of motion.
I think there is nothing wrong with the way the system works now. If people don't want to to post their thoughts and just enjoy reading on other peoples input then so be it. If people feel so bitter about other people not posting their ideas and thoughts then they can go else where. I have rarely posted any ideas on the bessler wheel, although I enjoy reading some of the ideas and theories that people have.
Ken, if I understand your question correctly, you're asking what I would think of a machine that could only power itself but had no useful excess power output?
IMO, if such a machine was overcoming it's own losses by somehow converting a conservative force then I think it would represent a remarkable breakthrough, no matter how limited it's power output, and it would be very important.
If, on the other hand, the proposed machine is somehow converting free environmental energy in order to just drive itself, but had no useable excess power output, then I think it would be of comparatively limited importance unless it could be improved to the point where it might replicate Bessler's demonstrations.
Hey Ralph .. what makes you think anyone who is a member here [contributing or not] has even seen the bait let alone the besslerfish ? You wouldn't know who baited your line [if at all] unless you knew the solution, unless of course you think a number of members have been circling the answer like a school of sharks but not quite got it all together yet [just a matter of time] ;) - the trouble I have with that is that the directions the members take is very diverse, from gravity only [the majority] thru to assisted gravity etc - so personally I would be very surprised indeed if it were as JC & others think because it goes against my conservative grain, so to speak - always willing to be shown otherwise though, lol.
FWIW, I think Bill's thermal hypothesis scavenging heat [endothermic] is is all probability the most likely candidate for that solution - at least the hypothetical machine could perform work over & above losses [giving out/radiating some heat] by taking that heat sink energy from the ambient conditions, much like a stirling engine does in different circumstances e.g. solar or direct heat transfer from a hot medium.
That way those following this line of thought can neatly sidestep the PM definition conundrum of 'more energy out than in' that use of conservative forces only conjures [nonsense IMO] & correctly label it FE or OU, without the pseudo fringe science element tag & widening the net [to catch a besslerfish] at the same time ;)
Excuse me for causing such an uproar at the ole' fishing hole. I guess I am just loosing my patience and becoming an old cantankerous fool! All of a sudden I remind myself of the banned cabinet maker.
I will no longer disturb the fish, keep my worms in my mouth to keep them warm in the winter and do my fishing down around the bend.
My statement has gone far out of context as I was referring to those that think any profits should be shared by all members. Obviously the machine would benefit all.
Yes a number of confiding members have been circling what they think is the answer like a school of sharks, but as you say they have not quite got it all together yet [just a matter of time] ;) Attrition catches up with most but there are always replacements. I wish them luck while I continue to pursue my own endeavors.
My own frustrating research based on gravity/centripetal or what I call the "Euler-Newton approach deems that I do less fishing here with the group and mark an "X" on the side of my boat when I find a likely hole!
