My latest work.

[broli]

I've been lead to this particular idea which has exists out of old ideas and so on. I made a very elaborate presentation of it so I'll let it talk and fill the blanks if needed. Read it like a comic book page.

You will notice in the wm2d model that the ratio is at a staggering 1/1.000.000.

http://ziosproject.com/NJ/test08.avi

[Michael]

Broli your wrong in your assumption that the forces get bigger they don't.

[broli]

Hey Michael thanks for your reply.

There's really no assumption. It's just pure math and logic. I will elaborate more on that with a specific example and the simple math.

Thanks again for the reply since I put a lot of work in these illustrations and would like people to at least spend a minute or two on some feedback.

[RIPPERTON]

The person who rediscovers Besslers Wheel will do so without useing a single mathematical equation or computation.
Bessler wasnt a mathematician he was a believer.
He used faith.
He who believes the strongest will triumph

[broli]

This is highschool level math and bessler was well educated as well. To say he didn't use any math at all is insanely ridiculous.

[greendoor]

You can't build clocks and pipe organs with faith alone. Bessler understood Newtons laws very well - and I believe he is on record as saying that his wheel did not violate any of Newtons laws.

I think we are just missing something so simple and obvious that it's been ignored.

We take so many scientific 'axioms' for granted and don't question their authority - but are they really true? For example the force of gravity. Software modeling will use an established figure that we all take for granted as being 'true' - but is it really?

It seems to me that tides rise and fall every day, which suggests that the gravity force is oscillating by a large amount daily. Just because it's only obvious at sea level doesn't mean it doesn't happen over land ... so what is the actual force of gravity, in reality ... shouldn't this be factor in?

This is just one example of something so obvious and basic that could just be the answer we need ...

Newtons laws work fine for most practical things - and Bessler's wheel would appear to be a simple, practical thing. I don't think we need concern ourselves with light speed relativistic effects or anything too fancy.

It's not Newton's fault if we choose to ignore real, measurable things with our simple math models.

[DrWhat]

Greendoor, I guess I need to weigh myself on my scales at high tide. Hey, every bit counts!

[murilo]

Since I'm very ignorant about such formulas, let me ask you something:

- as we saw in Olimpic games, that athlet who suspend himself and play, strongly, in-between those two large rings hanged in cords edges.

There is that moment when he makes that very hard exercice, with the arms at 90º from his body, forming a ''T''. Have you seen?

Does this means that at that moment the guy hold infinite forces in his arms? Hmmm? Then his arms should explode at that moment...

( I think that there are no difference if the rings are hold to cords or to two walls. )

regs. Murilo

[WaltzCee]

broli,

The only way to have an infinite force is to divide by zero. It is possible to make very large forces though.

Small masses can make very large forces with leverage. It doesn't take much movement or energy to drastically change the quantities.

Forces have a way of equalizing when rotated.


Walter

[broli]

Like I said this is simple math. Imo you at least need mechanical force analysis skills to figure out what the size of a force and where it acts on. Just saying "it needs to be further out on one side" is not enough.

@WaltzCee: that is the point...as the angle gets near to 0 you start to divide by zero (5 N/tan(angle)). So you can make the force arbitrary big with any mass you'd like.

The problem is indeed once you start using this force it disappears quickly as the angle grows again. For long now I have been looking for a way to break newton's third law. I want it to become for ever action there is an arbitrary reaction. Of course you'll get paradoxes like a mass lifting itself but if Bessler didn't do it I doubt so many people would be motivated.

[greendoor]

Broli - I would love to hear your theory and check out the math, but that AVI file just doesn't work for me. Are you using a PC or Mac? PC here, and I tried Windows Media Player and Pinnacle Studio 8, and neither worked.

Could you please describe the theory in text form? In simple terms, assuming we've never heard anything from you before.

How can we lift a mass using less force than normally expected? That is the crux of any Bessler wheel. I would love to think that Newtons laws have a mathematical loophole we can exploit. I've wondered about E = 0.5MVsquared - seems to me that we should be able to get big increases in energy if we simply sum two velocities together - I would love to see that equation being exploited.

[broli]

@greendoor: you'll need the xvid codec for that video...

http://www.xvid.org/Downloads.15.0.html

Could you please describe the theory in text form? In simple terms, assuming we've never heard anything from you before.

What exactly have you trouble understanding in those presentations? The reason why I dislike text is because it's an illogical way to explain mechanical ideas. That's why I spend more time in making illustrations and less time in explaining it.

How can we lift a mass using less force than normally expected? That is the crux of any Bessler wheel.

If I knew that I would have had a working model. I only showed a way to make arbitrary masses pull with huge forces on to something. You cannot directly put this system on a wheel (what I know from experience all to well) because you'll get action-reaction equaling everything out.

So far I still have not a definitive experiment that clearly and especially easily shows how in a clever way you can make use of this. The wm2d simulation is not realistic in many ways. But it just shows the idea.

I have hoped for people to look at this idea and make them think and maybe even come up with their own variations. That's what sharing is all about.

Here's another illustration hopefully simplifying it even more.

[WaltzCee]

broli,

Your drawing looks like the roller on top the pan of weights is lower than the pivot of the board. You'd have to add enough weight to rip the board from it's pivot.

There are too many variables in your question to give an answer. The best solution isn't always found with an equation. Often it's quicker to set up a mechanism and let gravity do the calculations. It's never wrong.


Walter

[broli]

Your drawing looks like the roller on top the pan of weights is lower than the pivot of the board.

I used MS paint please bare with me.

You'd have to add enough weight to rip the board from it's pivot.

I'm not trying to rip it off!

The best solution isn't always found with an equation. Often it's quicker to set up a mechanism and let gravity do the calculations. It's never wrong.

I'm not wrong either here. If you build it you'll notice that it will oscillate. When the board is horizontal the force pulling the pan is maybe 1.000.000 N. So it pulls the pan up. But when it rotates like one degree it's maybe only 200 N and the pan start to win so the pan falls and pulls in return the board back up and the process restarts. Like I said this is nothing special but maybe someone could find some practical use for it.

Of course on a real built it will settle down on a given angle.

[WaltzCee]

For long now I have been looking for a way to break newton's third law. I want it to become for ever action there is an arbitrary reaction.

The downward force caused by the addition of weights is split between lifting the upper lever and pulling it from its pivot. That's the balance. No need to rewrite the physics books with this example.

Of course you'll get paradoxes like a mass lifting itself but if Bessler didn't do it I doubt so many people would be motivated.

A single mass will never lift itself. The only wheel I've ever seen using a single mass is the BS wheel. Bessler didn't use a single mass.


Walter