James, I admire your positive slant to the whole P M history but I think you have to question the "secrecy and lack of important details" that always accompany these successes.
Common sense tells me something is a bit fishy.
Now we have the same secrecy and lack of important details where Bessler is concerned . The difference being that all available evidence points to the"man" Bessler himself. Swearing on his own head that it was genuine. Just pay his asking price and all would be revealed.
Here we have a horse of a different color !!
My imagined goal is to re-build the Willis motion precisely, according to the fine detail as provided by the excellent cut.
That's quite a goal James. I'm glad to see you included the word "imagined" .
Your last observation That's quite a goal James. I'm glad to see you included the word "imagined". was most apt. Yes. Always it must be 'condition', 'condition', 'condition', and, 'qualify', 'qualify', 'qualify', 'though I must admit that I sometimes do fall down with regard to the prudent policies.
As for the dreamed-of project itself: the most difficult part is in getting the mechanicals all perfectly drawn and integrated so as to be in essential concordance with what the illustration allows, which is the sole arbiter to the perceived reality.
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OK, fair enough. So, might we not assign a fifty / fifty BLAME for the bad outcome, to the various principles involved in the Bessler tragedy, as it ended? (Out of all of them, I would tend to want to let noble Leibniz off the hook totally, and possibly even 'sGravensand, even though he functioned as a supreme irritant to Bessler.)
You offer that "Swearing on his own head that it was genuine. Just pay his asking price and all would be revealed. Here we have a horse of a different color !!"
From what we know, very true, Graham. Landgrave Karl was in a perfect position to pay what Bessler asked; after all it was not millions, but he didn't, so that made him a small part of the general problem, full credit being factored-in for all the good he added to the equation, of course.
All that needs be done now, is to await the secret finally being found out by one of more insightful members of Scott's forum, and once known, to exploit the situation by building our own personal ones (affixing the name of the blessed discoverer onto the thing) and generate our own energy.
From what has been observed by armies of on-lookers over the centuries, this rosy outcome does not seem a likely one, but, I would be the very last enthusiast to ever nay-say; I'll leave that to the many others who suffer from no such reticence.
James
Last edited by primemignonite on Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cynic-In-Chief, BesslerWheel (Ret.); Perpetualist First-Class; Iconoclast. "The Iconoclast, like the other mills of God, grinds slowly, but it grinds exceedingly small." - Brann
AB, I guess I would qualify as an "anybody" , so I'll chime-in with an offer of info.
My knowledge of what you ask about is limited, but I've not heard of anyone attempting it.
The motion is most complex, involving multiple compound motions that are not much apparent until after several studyings of it.
The machining on various of the parts would be demanding as it would require work done to watch-precision standards, aka "precision machining", or, tolerances held to within tenths.
Then, there is the matter inner works to be dealt with, which would be strictly of the imaginative / creative talent of any re-creator.
Factor-in the woodwork and turnings, and one would have a really big job on his hands, were he to attempt it.
Also, we might remember that when done, any final result, in order to embody value of an undoubtable historical nature, would have to match the cut perfectly in all ways, as well as conform to the contemporary descriptions of it's operational peculiarities.
Good luck.
James
Cynic-In-Chief, BesslerWheel (Ret.); Perpetualist First-Class; Iconoclast. "The Iconoclast, like the other mills of God, grinds slowly, but it grinds exceedingly small." - Brann
Thanks for your view point. But why do you think it is complicated? I can see where it would be a little time consuming but it is using a pin cog system that is easy to do without a milling machine. The larger wheel would be only 4 times the teeth as the gaps in the pin cog. 4 movements per turn. A flywheel attached to the pin cog. The slides weights look like they just sit in the slots. To me it looks like a fun project if (big if) I had the extra time.
"Our education can be the limitation to our imagination, and our dreams"
You asked ". . . why do you think it is complicated?"
Oh, just a silly notion.
[You might consider trying a ratio of, oh, um, eh . . . eight to one? Maybe? Perhaps?]
Yes, TEMPIS FUGIT so.
James
Cynic-In-Chief, BesslerWheel (Ret.); Perpetualist First-Class; Iconoclast. "The Iconoclast, like the other mills of God, grinds slowly, but it grinds exceedingly small." - Brann
Yes you are correct, 8 to one. This allows the flywheel to have better kinetic energy. A small oversight on my part. it happens when I make quick post between work. LOL
"Our education can be the limitation to our imagination, and our dreams"
Worry not, AB, I do much of the same thing myself. Possibly more.
Please call me James, if you will?
James
Cynic-In-Chief, BesslerWheel (Ret.); Perpetualist First-Class; Iconoclast. "The Iconoclast, like the other mills of God, grinds slowly, but it grinds exceedingly small." - Brann
As Preston so aptly advises us "Greed is the reason we do not know the secrets to the past invented gravity wheels . . ." that and vindictiveness, which combination is WHY we now struggle-so, attempting to re-discover what Bessler found, and then lost to us in a lifetime fit of spite.
You know, from a philosophical perspective.....I often ponder, especially in these times.....just where does "greed" end and "envy" begin? The Bessler situation and result can be a good example of the complexity of this issue. One can hardly remove themselves from..."Where you sit, is where you stand." So, the interests of all involved can be determined and then the situation starts to open up......and we see the self interests.
An old addage I've often enjoyed......"Is the glass half empty or half full?" Depends on whether you are drinking......or pouring, does it not? Perspective.....was Bessler greedy? Or were those scientific minds of the day greedy?
Steve
Finding the right solution...is usually a function of asking the right questions. -A. Einstein
I would say any time you want something for nothing is a form of greed and asking to high of a price is also a form of greed. But you have to look at it which is more wright, who has the ownership? Those who want something for nothing and would go to great extremes to force someone else to give it away is the worst form of greed there is.
"Our education can be the limitation to our imagination, and our dreams"
While attempting to clean out my desk, I ran across a folder where I had down loaded the mICKY nED home page and files. This link appears to have disappeared from the web. http://www.cybrtown.com/bessler/mt.html
I am now happy that I used the paper to make a hard copy of it.
Wondering about what ever happened to Mikey, I did a Google search and came up with the following hits. Reminiscence for some, trivia for others.
I hope the following is familiar to everybody here.
Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in a world they've been given than to explore the power they have to change it.
Impossible is not a fact. It's an opinion.
Impossible is not a declaration. It's a dare.
Impossible is potential.
Impossible is temporary.
