Tim Ventura's "Ion Wind" Device

[coylo]

I was watching this thorough British documentary.... UFO's: The Secret Evidence (Oct. 2005) on google video, and this fella shows up at the end of the doc. with his device (I think he calls them 'lifters'). No one knows for sure what exactly is going on, but the current theory is that of an "ion wind" effect.

Check it out here to cut to the chase......
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5QhqEoRvpEA

[ovyyus]

Have to love the guy's "it falls outside of known science" explanation. He doesn't point out the very fine HV feed wires connecting the apparatus to it's power supply on the floor. A typical lifter frame only weights a few grams due to the very small thrust.

I built similar high voltage 'lifters' years ago. They fly by accelerating a column of air downwards, an ion driven wind, through the electrode wire grid. Standard action/reaction science, albeit a novel way of pushing air.

[DrWhat]

Gotta love inventors like this guy, busy tinkering away in their sheds (see background), trying to achieve a breakthrough.

Just like us I guess.

[bluesgtr44]

This is how I found out about Besslers wheel and Ed Leedskalnin.....I was surfing through some of the lifter craft stuff and one link led to another and somehow I ended up here.


Steve

[rlortie]

Here is the link for research on lifters.

http://jnaudin.free.fr/lifters/main.htm

[Fletcher]

Lifters don't work in a vacuum case so that tells you it is Newtonian science of action & reaction as Bill says [certainly not unknown scientific principles imo].

[broli]

Lifters don't work in a vacuum case so that tells you it is Newtonian science of action & reaction as Bill says [certainly not unknown scientific principles imo].

Deny ignorance remember? The only test so far known is the one on naudin's site which even proved there was more going on than ionized air.

Tests results :

* At the atmospherical pressure, we can observe a thrust in the plan of rotation and directly applied on the asymmetrical capacitors when the voltage is increased from 0 to +45 KV. This produces a torque on the apparatus. When the voltage is back down to 0 V, the device retrieves its initial position.
* At the pressure of 1.72 x 10^-6 Torr ( High Vacuum conditions ), the apparatus rotates when the High Voltage is increased from 0 to +45 KV. However the thust observed is weaker than at the atmospherical pressure. When the voltage is back down to 0 V, the device retrieves its initial position.
* The oscillation of the apparatus in the horizontal plan is amplified with a parametrical effect due to the superposition of impulsions.

Conclusions : This experiment is very interesting and shows definitely that a force is produced on asymmetrical capacitors when a High Voltage of +45KV is applied between their armatures in a High Vacuum ( 1.72 x 10^-6 Torr ).

The force applied on an asymmetrical capacitor is composed of two parts :

* An eletrokinetics part produced by the ions kinetic momentum transfert and the attraction of the main armature by the ionic cloud generated by the wire. This effect occurs only at atmospherical pressure.
* An electrogravitics part, this is the most interesting part, which can be observed only in High Vacuum conditions. This phenomenon, called the Biefeld-Brown effect, shows that it is possible to move an asymmetrical capacitor when it is energized with High Voltage. Although this force is weaker than the electrokinetics thrust in atmospherical pressure and although this thrust is not able to lift a standard Lifter placed in the earth gravity field, this experiment confirms a major phenomenon in the field of advanced propulsion because we have here a direct conversion of electricity into thrust...

Now, we can imagine space vehicles which will be able to move in deep space by using the direct conversion of electricity ( from solar panels, thermo-electric or electro-nuclear generators ) into thrust... This can be done without the need of conventional propellants or neutral gas ( this a propellantless propulsion )...

Form your own conclusion out of that and don't follow the herd.

[Fletcher]

That's how an electric motor was first conceived - Faraday noticed that when a current was passed thru a horizontally suspended wire the wire moved to the side of its apparent own accord - so was formulated the right or left had rule [can't remember which is correct in this example] - from there he designed a vertically rotating star wheel [metal] & mercury switch/bath which was the genesis of the rotating electric motor/generator with brushes etc i.e. rotor & stator & current applied.

[ovyyus]

The force applied on an asymmetrical capacitor is composed of two parts :

* An eletrokinetics part produced by the ions kinetic momentum transfert and the attraction of the main armature by the ionic cloud generated by the wire. This effect occurs only at atmospherical pressure.

That is not correct.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biefeld-Brown_effect

The effect has become something of a cause célèbre in the UFO world, where it is seen as an example of something much more exotic than electrokinetics. Charles Berlitz devoted an entire chapter of his book The Philadelphia Experiment to a retelling of Brown's early work with the effect, implying he had discovered some new electrogravity effect being used by UFOs. In fact, Brown was fully aware of how the device worked. Today, the Internet is filled with sites devoted to this interpretation of the effect.

An article by Martin Tajmar describes an experiment designed to test the possibility that this effect may need some other effect than ion winds for its explanation. No such effect was found, to the limit of experimental accuracy. In particular, no thrust could be observed in a vacuum.

Critics and supporters alike have called throughout the years for vacuum experiments, in order to eliminate ion wind contributions from the devices. While there have been a handful of such experiments, most notably the efforts of Dr. R.L. Talley in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s, all such test have ended in failure, prompting critics to declare the matter closed and settled.

Broli, forming conclusions out of incomplete or wrong data is usually a mistake. Be careful which herd you follow :)

[ssmyser]

A show called 'mythbusters' tested these lifters in a vacuum, and they won't work without air. The lifters themselves are easy to build: fine wires, aluminum foil, and toothpicks I believe, oh and an old television as an HV power supply. The lifters do work and look impressive, just don't touch the wires.

[greendoor]

Google on "Townsend Brown" and the Bifield-Brown effect. There has hardly been a bigger coverup job of disinformation than this one. This guys work was highly classified, and with the military involved you can't believe anything that anyone says about this issue. If the public can be convinced that this effect is merely "ion-wind", the truth about this amazing discovery will remain a military secret.

It was at the point that this discovery was tested in a vacuum that this became highly classified.

[bluesgtr44]

I mentioned before that I had looked at these. It was about 5-6 years ago that I stumbled across them. They require about 30K volts of input. I was going to use an old computer monitor that I had to build one of these. The "lifter" itself is very light weight in design and could easily be constructed. If you think about it, it is not very energy efficient.

Here is the site I used to go to and probably has some of the best links....it did a few years ago anyway. There is a photo of one of these where it appears they caught a corona field between the upper wire and the foil. Very interesting stuff!

http://www.americanantigravity.com/lifter4.html


Steve

[greendoor]

I've seen the white paper released by the US Army. Everything about these 'lifters' strikes me as a clever disinformation scheme to draw attention away from the real effect. TT Brown knew that ion wind would confuse the issue, and did everything to prove it was not ion wind. These lifters are designed to maximise the ion wind effect, and really confuse the issue.

TT Brown talked about 'stress in dialectrics'. The basic principle is that capacitors create a reactionless force. My simplistic way of looking at this effect is to consider an electron (negative charge) orbiting an atom nucleus. If this atom is a dielectric sandwiched in between two capacitor plates, one charged negative, and the other charged postive - what do you think will happen to the orbit of the electron? It will become assymetrical, as the electron is attracted on one side, and repulsed on the other. Now what do you have if you have an orbiting mass that is 'stressed' like this? You have an unresolved force wanting to pull that electron in one direction ...

Think of a tethered ball swinging around a pole, like a tethered tennis ball. Imagine the rope is elastic, and there is a force that pulls the ball in one direction (maybe a giant wind machine, for example). There will be an unresolved force on the pole.

So if we can create a situation where a mass is placed between highly charged capacitor plates, every single atom in that mass could experience a force in one direction, without having to eject mass.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that NASA and others already know and use this secret scientific principle. It could also explain a lot of man-made UFO technology, and why NASA is consuming money like water but rocket technology has not progressed much since the 1960's. It's probably of very little interest to them, if they have much better technology that must not be talked about.

[ovyyus]

Conspiracy theories are alive and well, still :D

[broli]

Quite skeptic for a guy running a website dedicated to a questionable invention.