Georg Künstler's Ideas...

[Trev]

Ah, I see, I never was much into secret societies.
I say give it all away. If ol' Bessler had done that, he'd have been alot better off and world famous still.

Trev.

[Georg Künstler]

the future has begun

Georg

[Oxygon]

I'm still confused...?

need more detail...

[epistemologicide]

hi oxygon, it will be with out comment, but i have a description of the device although in german, ill just concer with georg FIRST, if at all i am allowed to post it to you Privately.

note to all, this will be with out comment, as stated by georg in the above posts!!.

[Trev]

Ah! I get it, the 3 segmented roller with the 3 peg springs IS the eccentric roller when given a bit of centifugal force to pull the mass all to one side.

I've just re-read the whole 3 pages of this thread 3 times and I can honestly say, that at last I understand it all ! Shame it took so long, I think previously it had all been 'lost in translation'.

You've left me with quite a lot to think about there Georg, thanks for sharing it with us,

Trev.

[Trev]

Well, I spent 4 hours this afternoon, building meccano models to test the 'running down hill, jumping up' idea : -
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?id=74

It does not work, well not as shown in the picture above anyway, if you make the ramp 3 times the height and very long it does, but it seems very inefficient, the weighted back cylinder seems to keep spinning after the front one has hit the stop, almost seems as if the centrifugal force of the weight works against it, I get the feeling that a weight simply mounted above the rear cylinder would work better? Anyone else tried this out?

Anyone in there? :)

Trev.

[jim_mich]

George's wheel...

OK, here is a start. Using WM I mounted eight 4 inch [10 cm] wheels at 10.62 [27 cm] from the center on a 11.8 radius [30 cm] disc. Then put it inside a 29.5 inch [75 cm] diameter cylinder. I put weights 1.5 inch [3.8 cm] from each wheel axle and made each weigh the same as a wheel. I let it go and it wobbled back and forth and came to rest. So I gave both the inner and outer assemblies a 1 second push. They rolled around a bit then again came to rest. I'm using NO friction so the individual wheels just keep swinging.

Next I should try to assign some realistic weights to the components. Then what about the springs? I'm not sure how they work. Maybe each small wheel is spit into three segments with a spring between each segment?

[Trev]

Jim,
I think the small cylinders are meant to be segmented into 3 with springs between each segment as per the picture above.

It's not clear from Georgs last post whether there is only 1 segmented cylinder, all or every other?

A drawing would be a lot clearer than those pictures, but I think the intention is to be vague.

Trev.

[Jonathan]

Jim, I built a model just like the device you have attached, and I got the same results. But with this newer design, I got the impression that all the rollers are now supposed to be three pieces with springs, but I don't have the ability to make such an odd assembly.

[jim_mich]

Ok, now the wheels/rollers are NOT weighted on one side, and are just the three spring loaded segments on an axel? If three segments then how much freedom of movement do they have? How much movement in and out? How much movement side to side? How strong would the springs be? I don't know how to make a 'hair pin' spring in WM so I'll need to subtitute compression or extention springs. Are they sprung to each other only or sprung to the axle?

[Fletcher]

Ok, my understanding is that the assembly is supposedly rather like a hampster in a cage & once the inner mech starts "walking" forward then it starts a self propergating perturbance or "trouble force" to re-energize the system i.e. the mech supposedly creates self exciting oscillating forces that perpetuates instability & rotation, once started.

jim, you could try a dampended spring element.

[Jonathan]

I think you could make the three part assembly by having those three parts share a central pivot, and between adjacent parts there would be just a normal spring. I drew a quick picture, the squiggles are supposed to be springs.

[jim_mich]

Jonathan,
Your right, I could do it like that. But I don't think that is quite what George has in mind. From his pictures it would seem the segments would move in and out, so they would act somewhat like rubber balls. Hmmm, maybe if I just change the propeties of the wheels to 'rubber'?

[Jonathan]

I figured from his drawings that the ends of the springs must be attached to the wedges, or else the whole thing would fall apart. But you are right, even if that is true, they would be able to move in and out a bit. Who knows what difference that would make?

[ovyyus]

There are no springs in the inner wheels - at least none that are shown in the pictures Georg has sent to me. Georg has never instructed or even hinted to me to keep these photo's private. I see various people here putting considerable effort into attempting to understand Georg's claim so I think it's appropriate to post these pictures - I hope this is OK...

As can be seen, the inner off-balance wheels appear to be constructed from skate wheels joined by a bolt that is loaded with nuts. The pictures don't seem to reflect the drawings of three sections with springs, so I must say that I really don't know what's going on. Georg's photo's seem to conflict with his other descriptions and sketches.

Georg has stated to me that he has actually constructed and proven this machine. I can not confirm this is actually the case as there is still no evidence other than these pics of a stationary wheel construction and a few sketches and descriptions. Perhaps Georg will come forward to clear up the confusion?