Balancing gravity with CF

[greendoor]

It's good to have different ideas & opinions ... and to have our own ideas & opinions challenged. Thanks everyone.

Ovyyus - I will agree that mostly text-book science serves us very well for practical purposes, and it would be a very rare & freakish thing to actually find a violation of the basic laws as we understand them.

Agor95 - I like your idea about a helix around an inverted cone ... certainly gells with what i've read about Schauberger & Clem etc ... there was also a guy recently who invented "tornado in a can" that showed anomolous energy gains. He's been bought out, but you might still find fragments of information on the net. That was a normal non-inverted vortex, and required compressed air to start it, but an inverted one would have gravity to start it ... hmmm

Erick - we may disagree on the absolute certainty of some theories. I'm stating that concepts like special relativity are wrong - just allowing room for the possibility that they could be wrong. Or that another idea might be more right. But since you believe that Bessler succeeded, then you obviously have an open mind to discovering new things that many people would just dismiss as impossible nonsense ...

jim_mich - thanks for your ideas - I really appreciate your teaching and perspective on things. I definately like the idea of rectifying random motion to create negative entropy ... not sure if this could be done with solid masses, unless there was some form of chaotic motion ... I think Bessler hints at this in his poem ...

[erick]

You'll have to prove that all four forces of nature are unified and are actually one erick before you can say that the sun is fueled by gravity alone.

Yes of course . Will gravity reverse and push those things back up again?

As specifically stated by the article cited (by Ovyus I think) the sun is indeed fueled purely by gravity. The heat and light that eminate from it are by-products of that extreme gravity. They are the physical manefestation of the gravitational energy (that we can percieve).

As to gravity pushing things back up again: That's not my point. My point is that gravity does indeed do work. Whether or not it can cyclically do that work ad infinitum is another matter all together. The only instance where the concept of gravity being a conservative force would prevent it from doing work is on a perfectly level surface. As soon as a gradient is introduced it will, without fail, cause the object to move IOW do work.

[erick]

(Sorry for such a long post. I hope I didn't put you to sleep. I just got started typing and could not quit.)

It's funny I was reading all of these replies while laying in bed, drifting off to sleep on my Blackberry. LOL.

Anywho, I know you've proposed this Maxwells' Daemon idea before as a possible "prime mover" in Bessler's wheel. I find that idea to be rather unlikely. Now where in any of Bessler's writings (as far as I know) does he talk about using anything other than a mechanical arrangement of weights that powered his wheel. No mention of temperature differentials, barometric differentials etc. While it might be interesting to discuss such things and who knows maybe it could one day result in some sort of free energy motor (similar to what they built on MythBusters) it seems to me that this sort of concept was in no way involved in Bessler's wheel.

[erick]

hmm
That quote is suppose to support gravity not powering the sun?

I don't buy that.

Yeah, what he said...

First line of your citation: "The sun is what is called a gravitational fusion furnace. The gravity of the sun's mass of gasses cause the pressure and the temperature in the center of the sun to reach a temperature of 15,000,000 degrees C and a pressure of about 250,000,000,000 times the pressure on the surface of the earth. At such high temperature and pressure four atoms of hydrogen fuse together to form one atom of helium.
"

[Michael]

erick this is a serious question because I don't know, how much of Bessler have you read?

Now where in any of Bessler's writings (as far as I know) does he talk about using anything other than a mechanical arrangement of weights that powered his wheel. No mention of temperature differentials, barometric differentials etc.

Bessler also said that not once did he ever reveil the prime mover of his wheel. At to that at places he talks of substances, heat, different kinds of meltability, metalic fluids and other fluids, and has a number of liquid engines in M.T. , drawings that contain bellows, sinue's, poltergeists ( ether?) leg muscles,... it does give the serious enquirer pause to wonder.

[ovyyus]

As specifically stated by the article cited (by Ovyus I think) the sun is indeed fueled purely by gravity. The heat and light that eminate from it are by-products of that extreme gravity...

Funny how things can be interpreted to suit an agenda ;)

Erick, if you think heat and light from the sun is fueled by gravity and not by hydrogen fusion then you probably also think the power of an an internal combustion engine is fueled by it's spark plug and not by gas. Ever heard the term catalyst? Duh :D

[agor95]

Greendoor

Looking at the Clem design it looks like the oil gets heated by friction and expands as it is forced down the cone due to CF.

That would cause the oil to jet out at a faster rate than expected.

I think the same heating due to friction was in the Schauberger design.

Well as jet engines us fuel to heat air I see no reason why we can not use friction instead.

The amount of oil would have to be large so the friction did not become to large a factor. Also the cone would have to be turned until the cone was at operating temperature.

[erick]

As specifically stated by the article cited (by Ovyus I think) the sun is indeed fueled purely by gravity. The heat and light that eminate from it are by-products of that extreme gravity...

Funny how things can be interpreted to suit an agenda ;)

Erick, if you think heat and light from the sun is fueled by gravity and not by hydrogen fusion then you probably also think the power of an an internal combustion engine is fueled by it's spark plug and not by gas. Ever heard the term catalyst? Duh :D

It specifically says in the part the you quoted: "The sun is what is called a gravitational fusion furnace. The gravity of the sun's mass of gasses cause the pressure and the temperature in the center of the sun to reach a temperature of 15,000,000 degrees C and a pressure of about 250,000,000,000 times the pressure on the surface of the earth. At such high temperature and pressure four atoms of hydrogen fuse together to form one atom of helium. "

[rlortie]

Agor95,

Your above five paragraphs regarding the "Clem Engine" are all in error.

Suggest you pick up this topic and revive the thread at: http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... highlight=

After you review what is posted I would be glad to discuss this with you there.

Lets let this thread get back to subject of gravity and CF

Ralph

[ovyyus]

Erick, pressure and temperature are required for hydrogen fusion to occur. But fusion output power is the result of mass being converted to energy, not gravity being converted to energy. Try this analogy:

An internal combustion engine designed to run on diesel fuel uses compression ignition to burn the fuel. As with the sun, certain conditions must be met in order for the fuel to ignite within the engine. In both cases the fuel (hydrogen or diesel) is subject to pressure and heat (gravity or mechanical compression) which causes reaction (fusion or exothermic chemical reaction). In both cases the engine (gravitational fusion furnace or internal combustion engine) output power is the measure of fuel reaction (hydrogen fusion or diesel burning) and not a measure of the conditions under which the fuel reacts (gravity or mechanical compression).

[erick]

Ovyus,

It is clearly stated in the article YOU CITE that the intense gravity is the CAUSE of the fusion. Not to be a dick, but learn how to read.

Fusion output power is the result of 2 free electrons for every one helium atom created out of 4 hydrogen atom.

[ovyyus]

Ovyus,

It is clearly stated in the article YOU CITE that the intense gravity is the CAUSE of the fusion. Not to be a dick, but learn how to read.

Just as intense pressure is the cause of diesel ignition. Learn how to reason.

[erick]

Where pray tell do you think that intense pressure comes from? Magic?

[ovyyus]

Duh

[erick]

Seriously? What's not clear about the term "GRAVITATIONAL FUSION furnace"?