Bessler wheel principle solved?

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re: Bessler wheel principle solved?

Post by daxwc »

"Saturn, Mars and Jupiter are
ready to join in any battle", i think this part of the metaphor relates to the picture at the end of the AP book!, i studied the planets Mars Saturn and Jupiter and took measurements of there diameter's i then scaled these down and overlaid them to descover they look like the picure below
Does anybody have evidence the size of Mercury was known in Bessler's time. I imagine it was, but I am having a hard time confirming it. I know it was very hard to observe due to closeness of the sun.
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Post by jim_mich »

I have a 27 year old 62nd edition of CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics. Its sizes for the planets are much different than what you find now on Wikipedia. Estimating planet size was not a very exact science until very recently.

Code: Select all

                 1981                   2009
PLANET   RADIUS(km)  TOLERANCE  RADIUS(km)  TOLERANCE  DIFFERENCE
Earth:    6371.315   ±0.437      6378.1     ±0.0          +6.785
Saturn:  58219.0     ±262.0     60268.0     ±4.0       +2049
Mars:     3380.0     ±20.0       3396.2     ±0.1         +16.2
Jupiter: 69758.0     ±139       71492.0     ±4.0       +1730   
Mercury:  2433.0     ±35.0       2439.7     ±1.0          +6.7
Hmmm... Are the planets growing??

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re: Bessler wheel principle solved?

Post by greendoor »

To an 18th century alchemist:

Saturn = Lead
Jupiter = Tin
Mars = Iron

Maybe he was just using the jargon of his day to describe the materials he used.

Or depending on his understanding of what gravity is, maybe he believed (as some modern day thinkers also believe) that the gravitational influence of all mass in the universe, especially the nearby planets, has some affect on the gravity field we experience.

If Bessler's wheel was powered by gravity (which I suspect it is) there needs to be some explaination of where the energy comes from, and frankly the thinking of medieval alchemists is not greatly different from the thinking of modern day quantum physicists ... it's fairly fragile and 'out there' ...
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re: Bessler wheel principle solved?

Post by Michael »

Greendoor, a question. How can you argue against a buoyancy engine ( which is really just a gravity engine of another kind ) and argue for a gravity engine?
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re: Bessler wheel principle solved?

Post by greendoor »

Michael - you asked "How can you argue against a buoyancy engine ( which is really just a gravity engine of another kind ) and argue for a gravity engine?"

That is a very astute question - and to be honest, that question was running through my mind while I was post about bouyancy. To avoid any hint of hypocrisy, I will give you as honest a reply as I can give.

You are right. A buoyancy engine is just a gravity engine of another kind. So to be strictly accurate, I am not ruling out the possibility that a gravity engine involving buoyancy cannot run. However, I am saying that all the buoyancy designs I have seen are in the same category as all the overbalanced solid mass gravity wheel designs I have seen. As Bessler documented so well so long ago - there are many, many designs that all don't work.

However - I believe Bessler found a design that works. I have my own theory about how it worked, which i'm still refining. I've decided not to publish my full theory until I have an easily replicated, simple, cheap design. I'm not a good builder - but I take comfort that a "carpenters boy" could knock one up, and any design I publish will be very crude and easy to make.

Assuming i'm on the right track - YES - I believe Bessler's wheel ran directly from the force of gravity. Gravity provides the acceleration to the masses. There is a trick, but it does not violate Newtonian physics. It requires some lateral thinking, which is why I think it's been missed for so long.

It's conceivable that this trick could be applied to buoyant devices - I would have to think about this, but it would make things a bit more expensive and complicated, so it's not a priority for me right now.

I will drop another clue. I do believe that the "trick" may be fairly easily applied to waterwheels. Throughout history, and even on U-tube, there have been some inventors who claim to have self-running waterwheel. Of course we all scoff because we "know" they can never work. But now I convinced there is a special situation that invokes this "trick" that should work, according to my calculations. If i'm right, I suspect that the "waterwheel" that Bessler was working on when he died was going to implement this idea.

For large scale power production, a water-wheel may actually be the prefered embodiment of Bessler's principle. Just think: Bessler had to hide his prime-mover inside his wheel, away from prying eyes. He even had to modify the design to run both ways, even though the efficiency was not as good. Just imagine what he could have done if he did not need to hide the mechanism. If I am correct, the potential for power from the primemover depends on the size of the prime-mover. As far as I can tell, changing the diameter of the wheel does not change the power output - it only multiples the torque, at the expense of speed. In other words, it does the same as a gearbox. But I don't believe Bessler was lying - I believe that with a greater diameter wheel, he could scale up the size of the prime mover, and therefore the energy produced was scaled up exponentially. But I also suspect that if he was not forced to hide the mechanism, the two devices could be seperated - just like we seperate Engines from Transmission and Final Drives, etc.

Sorry to be obtuse - I hope that clarifies my position. I don't want to knock any genuine free energy principle that happens to use bouyancy. As long as we understand how bouyancy works, and that it is not significantly different from moving mass up or down.
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Post by greendoor »

Correction: on second thoughts, changing the diameter of the wheel does increase power available because the falling mass has greater height.

What i'm really trying to say is that I see the prime-mover mechanism as being seperate from the wheel itself ... "a wheel appears ...". If we don't have to hide this mechanism inside a covered wheel, perhaps it could be outside the wheel, used as an elevator and we have mass (whether solid mass or perhaps water) spilling out the top and onto an ordinary wheel that is no different from a water wheel.

I could also be very wrong, and perhaps Bessler found a way of incorporating the prime-mover directly into the wheel itself. That seems to be the only view being explored here, but i'm taking a very different view based on my theory of how to extract free energy from gravity.

I admit I have some doubt about how similar my idea is to what Bessler actually built. But i'm convinced the basic operating principle is the same.

I view gravity as a force that can accelerate a mass - and that excluding air resistance, all mass accelerates at the same rate. We run out of height - which puts a limit on how much velocity can be achieved. But the force of gravity never goes away - even when a mass is sitting on a solid platform, like a table, that force with the ability to accelerate that mass never goes away. This is evidenced if we remove the table - the mass accelerates again.

The kinetic energy we can get out of gravity depends on how much mass we choose to use, and how much velocity we allow it to gain. IF there is a way to trick gravity into accelerating a body of mass that doesn't change it's average COG, there is potential for unlimited energy extraction.

Just don't be deceived that bouyancy is a way to avoid changing the average COG of a mass ...
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re: Bessler wheel principle solved?

Post by Alone »

I found this picture in "Alchemy-Kabal-Astrology".
It is in french but easy to understand.

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Post by AB Hammer »

Thanks Alone

That is a cool chart.
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Post by greendoor »

Correction: sorry for the above misinformation - Bessler was working on a Wind mill when he died, not a Water wheel. Please accept my apologies for that red herring. I'm not the best at historical facts - my interest is mainly in the mechanism. I still stand by my comments that the Bessler principle should work very well in a specific Water wheel configuration, and still might be the prefered implementation. That's because water is a freely available mass and it might be easier to work with pumps and valves and elevating water to a storage tank and using conventional turbine generators. The use of hydraulics might also be a better way - although water is cheaper on a big scale.

(A Wind mill might have been a nice cover for a Bessler wheel though, don't you think? ... It must have been so frustrating to Bessler to know the secret and not to see it implemented in industry ...)
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re: Bessler wheel principle solved?

Post by path_finder »

I agree with the greendoor's assumptions.

The gravity seems to be a flux of very small particles giving a pressure on every kernel of our body, the summation of all these elementary pressures being our own weight. We cannot today see them because we need a radiation much more smaller for their detection, but they are here and we can only observe the result of their activity. So far the gravitic acceleration is always present, but the motion depends of the application of the resultant force. If we are siting on a chair, the resultant force acting on our body will be locked by the chair, and the chair locked by the floor.

In an earlier topic (http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 3152#53152) I explained the three methods for obtaining a gravitic engine.

1. In an uniform gravitic field and using some fixed mass weights, by changing with a clever way the position of the weights. But this is not sufficient because the energy gained during the down travel will be loosen during the lift up back travel.
So the travel path modification must be combined with an another complementary action
This secondary action can be another gravitic or buoyancy mechanism, Maxwell daemon, magnetic force, etc.
I gave an example (legs_j1bis.gif picture) of this twin action in another topic
(http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... c&start=30).
Although Bessler seems to have found a prime-over based on this principe (and setup within two different designs),
nevertheless they were several others examples in the past using the same one (buzzsaw, Asa jackson, etc.)

2. In an uniform gravitic field and using variable weights, there is possible to build a wheel where the left side is light when the right side is heavy, giving an permanent unbalance (even if the variation of the weight is very small).
This is the principe of the 1905 Tesla patent. Some russian experiments confirm this idea.
All researchers on this subject (like Mr Greg Smith) were obsessed by the full levitation, instead to apply it first at the unbalanced wheel.
Also the reason why Mr Wurtz, Mr Kunstler, etc. were not successful is the fact to be only in 2D instead in 3D.
The flowerbowl brings an elegant solution for the building of such as rotating COG objects, therefore with a variable weight.

3. Using a non uniform gravitic field and constant masses:
This is the most difficult way today. IMO this was the principe used by the Vimanas and the mythic 'Flying carpet'.
The creation of a 'gravitic hole' under a platform (or carpet) seems to be difficult.
We have no way to verify the truth about the Grebennikov platform, but I'm still continuing my studies on the 'gravitic lens' (like the Fresnel lens for the light).Any field reduction obtained with such as 'gravity lens' can be used for an unbalanced wheel.
The Virl of the Nazis, based on the Schauberger works on the vortex, could be (if true) an application of this third point.

We can only regret that so few budgets are provided for the studies on the 'gravitic engine'.
A falling apple allowed the mankind to make a big forward step.
We are dispensing a lot of money for some sophisticated accelerators and meanwhile we forget to investigate into very cheap and basic experiments (like mentioned in my signature).
I cannot imagine why nobody though on this before, including myself? It is so simple!...
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re: Bessler wheel principle solved?

Post by path_finder »

The discoveries made by Grebennikov seem not to be a fake.
Apparently they have been confirmed by some other russian scientists, which found the specie mentioned by him. See here:
http://www.ermetica.net/pk/?p=174
The videos named 'Elitre***' show the repulsion of the two elytrous.

Much more interesting are the five Tech videos later in the URL.
The guy uses some ceramic resonators located at the base of his wood box and a tetrapod pyramid.

If this experiment is reproductable, it's clear a gravity wheel can be done easily using this principle, the repulsion being used in opposite action on the same diameter. Somewhere in this forum I red earlier some suggestions on the same subject, supposing Bessler used some high frequency resonators.
I cannot imagine why nobody though on this before, including myself? It is so simple!...
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re: Bessler wheel principle solved?

Post by silverfox »

A most interesting combination, friend Pathfinder,

these pyramids and beetle wings...

and of course the scarab or dung beetle was the one that the ancient Egyptians considered to be the best and most sacred of all for reasons we can only speculate about and who quite often potrayed that small insect atop a pair of wings that clearly belonged to a magnificent bird of some kind and with a Sun-disc either held between its mandibles or hovering right over top of it...

all purely co-incidental, no doubt...

or is it?
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