Electrical question..

[LustInBlack]

Btw, I've tried that little experiment with no success.

I think I see where I was wrong..


Now I'm trying to prove I am wrong with another experiment..
It's probably stupid, but I have to try it..

Are electrons affected by centrifugal force?!

This is the question...

[rlortie]

LIb,

I believe it is called 'HEAT'

[LustInBlack]

What the ..

I don't talk about electrons moving arond the atom there...

Anyways.. Sounds like I should keep that to myself, this isn't a forum with 'electrical experts' it seems.

[LustInBlack]

Sorry about last post, I wasn't quite happy when I posted it .. 8]

[bluesgtr44]

I have a question, they say that current is the rate at which electrons flow thru a wire..

Suppose I move the wire toward the components of a circuit, does that mean that the components could tap a greater current !?

There are some things about electricity that I cannot fully understand.. Like, why are we playing with batteries, when we could create a voltage, and perpetuate the current locked at this voltage by physically moving the wire toward the circuit!?

Well, I admit this sounds a lot like a generator, maybe somebody can explain something I didn't quite grasp about electricity..

If this is known and true, then I believe an back EMF force would exists when I try to move the wire toward the circuit ..

If so, I could move the wire at a square angle to the circuit and face less back EMF but face a greater amount of current .. !?

WHEW! Getting here late on this one....went through the thread and I'm still a bit confused as to just what you are seeking, LIB. Going to make a stab at a few things here.

There are some things about electricity that I cannot fully understand.. Like, why are we playing with batteries, when we could create a voltage, and perpetuate the current locked at this voltage by physically moving the wire toward the circuit!?

Because of the resistance of all of the wiring. This is like friction to a Bessler wheel....generated heat loss. Moving the wire towards the circuit would generate heat loss in both the wire moving towards the circuit and then the circuit being fed....so, this would result in a minus...not a plus.

Transferring the EMF is not free! it takes from the source in the form of heat loss. Transformers are a classic example of this. You can't get more out of the primary than is put in. You know, it there was a way to get around some of this in the way it seems your looking at it.....we could make a killing harnessing static electricity by converting it. Another part to think about is the air gap between the circuit and the wire moving towards it is also resistance and will play a part in eating up what you think would be excess. Nice thought pattern here, LIB!


Steve

[murilo]

There is a nice way to ''think'' about electricity that is quite good for common people, as me, for e.

(Every electric circuit is composed of ''consumers'', what means that ''nobody'' will work for free. Most of all them will heat and take power, even the conductor wires.)

But the nice way to ''think'' is this:
- one can compare electric circuits, or power electric flow, as WATER circuits.
There are two main stuffs playing with water circuits: volume that you will compare to current, or amper rate, and the pression that may be compared to the voltage.

For a great water flow you`ll need large section tubes, or thin tubes for few water... same as one deal with amper flow, or current. If you force the volume flow in a thin tube you'll lose a lot in friction, reaching to a max.

For higher pression, or pressure, you'll need stronger wall tubes and doesn't matter if they independently are tubes for great or short volume of water.

This figuration plays the same if you have DC from batteries of pulsed 60Hz
AC from commercial net.

There is no free lunch... and this is why I think that all F_E people that search with electricity are lost, except if they try to take, or suck, something from outside, static, ether...

Last tip: there are excellent electronic ways to switch and control power electricity, as wanted and needed.
Take care.
Murilo

[LustInBlack]

Last tip: there are excellent electronic ways to switch and control power electricity, as wanted and needed.

Electromagnets and open spark accross a spark gap for high voltage..
This can achieve Tesla's impulse current (Radiant energy) I'm pretty sure; with today's electronics and microcontrolers, we can achieve much greater precision, thus much stronger effects..

we could make a killing harnessing static electricity by converting it. Another part to think about is the air gap between the circuit and the wire moving towards it is also resistance and will play a part in eating up what you think would be excess. Nice thought pattern here, LIB!

Air can have charged particle, it's always in movement, it's a gas..
This is all good things we can harvest using static electricity..

Think testatika.. They probably rob voltage difference from charged air and create a current with their "unknown" method.. ?!


Much things about electricity isn't fully discovered yet..

Physically moving a wire is moving the wire + content (atoms/electrons) ..

We need to move electrons as a separate group from atoms..
How about a metal plate with 2 gases, one over and one under..
You rob the charge from the plate and you replenish the plate with the air under.

[rlortie]

Lib,

In 1957-8 while training in electronics we were still in the vacuum tube era, the transistor and basic circuits had been invented but were not commercially in use yet.

Your comment;

We need to move electrons as a separate group from atoms.. about

caught my eye.

I was taught that outer orbiting electrons making up an atom move by being forced to jump to another atom which in turn kicks another out of orbit. Atoms do not move, if they did it would be an alchemist dream as you would be changing the conductor on an element-atomic scale

Copper, aluminum,silver and like elements or compounds make good conductors as the atom is made up of numerous electrons making it easy to kick out of orbit and on to the next atom.

Be careful you may learn to turn lead into gold and then watch the world economy get worse that it is now. :-)

Ralph

[LustInBlack]

Ralph,

I'm not sure, but I believe that atoms vibrate and that relative "void" between atoms is enormous.. Electrons do travel a relative long distance to knock about other loosely bound electrons ..

In a gas, the story is different, atoms move, electrons move, clustering can happen, charge can happen.. When you have clustering, I believe you can "draw" a circuit in thin air by grouping clusters together and wire them .. (Far fetched, but not kidding.) ..

In a wire, I see vibrating atoms like ripples in the ocean, the ocean being the copper wire (the atom arrangement); a fluid with high stencil strength..

The atoms are the media, electrons are the "water waves"..

The vibration might be caused by random forces acting on the atom, mostly heat..

The problem in my picture is this, electrons (electric current) do NOT move fast (we may not agree on this..) but the wave DO move at speed of light ..

In water analogy, you have water currents, water waves and water particles ...

I believe in a wire, current cannot exists without electromagnetism.. To flow thru the media, it must create magnetism ..

What about a gas, how about ions in a liquid?!

I'm pretty sure Tesla was interested in gas for a good reason.

[bluesgtr44]

When I was going through the basic electricity courses, I remember when this aspect was discussed. It was presented as the molecular make-up of the conductor was either more aligned or more chaotic depending on the element used. The description used was a squadron of soldiers in formation. The more chaotic the order of the soldiers, the higher the resistance.....basically, the harder it would be to get anything through the chaos. The more orderly the soldiers formation the more fluidly things could pass through. Gold is a very orderly formation of molecules and they don't shift as much.....iron, on the other hand is not nearly as orderly so the work required to get through this is increased. This measure of work is shown through generated heat loss.

I mentioned air resistance in my last post. During physics lab class, we had a small DC hand crank generator with the typical orbs at the end of two sticks....the wires ran up to each, one the source the other the return. You space these two and then generate a voltage and see how much it takes to overcome the air gapped resistance....it's a lot! So, I don't really see trying to draw extra power out of a system in this manner.

Voltage is the applied force going through a resistive path that's bi-product results in a current. Problem is, you have to maintain that applied force.....


Steve

EDIT: You might find some interesting reading with Ed Leedskalnin....he built Coral Castle declaring he had found the secret of how the pyramids were built. He has a couple of small publications describing electricity that might be of interest to some.