ToyPage discovery: Anvil is NOT aligned

[ruggerodk]

I don't know if anyone ever noticed this.

A close look at the toy page show that both anvils are very much out of alignment:
They are moved to the opposite side of the hitting hammer.

Could it be a coincidence?

As everything else on the page is nicely aligned (fx the hinge and dots in A and B) and we are dealing with a woodcut print and not a simple sketch, I believe this to be made on purpose by Bessler.

Also, have a look at the odd shape of the anvil's buttom....like it's supposed to slide or something.

regards
ruggero ;-)

[martin]

Hey ruggero great find. I didtn notice such an important thing.
But have to say i didnt saw original drawing just only digitaly enhanced, so i want to ask if there is a chance you could post full unedited picture.
I would be really thankfull.

Anyway great spot ;).

[rlortie]

Edit; changed my mind!

[Fletcher]

Could be suggesting that the CoM of a lever arrangement must be moved to create imbalance ?!

[ruggerodk]

Hey ruggero great find. I didtn notice such an important thing.
But have to say i didnt saw original drawing just only digitaly enhanced, so i want to ask if there is a chance you could post full unedited picture.
I would be really thankfull.

Anyway great spot ;).

Thanks Martin, that's my proffession. A graphic designer are trained to see hidden patterns and find symmetry in chaos ;-D

I'm not sure I'm allowed to do that...maybe we should ask John Collins if it's allright to publish that particular image here......JOHN, any comments on that would be appreciated, thanks ;-)

regards
ruggero ;-)

[John Collins]

I don't mind anyone posting anything I write or publish as long as they remember to attribute it to me;-)

JC

[Grimer]

...

Also, have a look at the odd shape of the anvil's buttom....like it's supposed to slide or something.

regards
ruggero ;-)

I see the bottom as feet - four, or possibly three in a star formation.

[ruggerodk]

Thank you Grimer...not that it couldn't look like one ;-D

Martin:
Thanks to JC for allowing me to upload the drawing of MT 138-141, page 167 from his Book "MaschinenTractate".

Regards
ruggero ;-)

[ruggerodk]

More speculation on the details:

One should think that Bessler knew how to draw both a right angle and a straight hammer-arm correctly....BUT this doesn't seems to be the case, or.....

Another curiosity is the pocket on the right hammer-man on C:
It looks very much like a "W" up-side-down with three dots below.

Maybe Bessler just liked to draw these little details for fun....who knows.

ruggero ;-)

Thanks to John Collins for allowing these crops from his book "Machinen Tractate".

[mindsweeper]

What about the spirals the bottom pair are wrapped in? I said this a while back on ou about spirals being an intrigue part (perhaps the key) to the Bessler wheel. They allow weights to fall slower and have the adage of gaining CF..

[martin]

Thanks to Ruggero and John Collins for puting this picture on forum. I really appriciate that ;).

Hey ruggero now this pic in big size, that is somethin to look for close up. I did just quick reserach on and cant really say things I found are dont know how important but atleast cuirous. I see you did also notice those guys hammers angles. I think I present the much less things you mentioned but just to be sure not to miss anything I did some measuring.

What I also found pretty curious along ruggeros found is that guys with hammers on longer side are also taller than opposite. C and D toy have different spacing betwen horizontal parts BUT same angle of tilt just opposite. The angle coincide with angel of scisor jack just to note.
To really take in mind this toy should be really identical on both side.


Maybe most Important fact is still what ruggero found but a bit more important is, it is nearly exact ratio of Golden Section and yeah thats somethin.

In the past I was a bit obsesed with golden ration and fibonaci numbers so if there is golden ration in it, it have some purpose. Fibonaci numbers are pure numbers of nature. Bessler did mentioned soo often that this wheel represent the nature in some way. I was sure when I started wtih Bessler golden ration will be the true ratio of bessler wheel inner mechanism.

Ok soo lets see what conclusion we could make.

Martin

[martin]

Ok sooo I think its time for me to share another thing i found earlier and repay ruggero his great found which he presented to all of us.

Its sugestion of the most important clue of how should mechanism operate.

John Collins Apologia poetica


# "a work of this kind of craftsmanship has, at its basis of motion, many separate pieces of lead. These come in pairs, such that as one of them takes up an outer position, the other takes up a position nearer the axle. Later, they swap places, and so they go on and on changing places all the time." - pg 295

Martin

[rlortie]

I will now re-post the one above that I edited with a lot of brevity;

Is it perception or lack of discerning that no one realizes that what you are calling an anvil IMO looks more like a kettle drum. Why is it off-center; because it moves back and forth with the parallel bar that it is attached to.

The toy has a handle on each opposing ends of the bars, moving one right and the other left and the so called anvil move half the distance relative to the hammers. Hold the top handle stationary and the anvil does not move and you increase the the hammer swing relative to the anvil.

Move one while the other is stationary and you have osculation, move them both and you have parabolic osculation, once again that is in reference to the anvil. Not unlike CF where the man is watching the kid on the merry-go-round he does not feel or see the force. Here you do not see the angular momentum upon the anvil or the whole embodiment of the toy.

Parabolic osculation is not, nor should it be compared to resonance such as wind blowing on a highway sign. Ever note the You-tube videos of the ghost swing? That is parabolic osculation as one chain is shorter than the other. Parabolic osculation is well known for being hard on suspension bridges. Why? Because all the suspension cables are of different length.

Changing the suspension length of a pendulum or the swing of a hammer while in motion creates angular momentum, which in turn increases velocity.

Note that the right hammer holder dressed as a court jester is choking up on the hammer handle while the figure on the right is swinging the hammer in a more proper manner. Their swing is uneven, thus when the toy is activated you have parabolic osculation.

The above is strictly my opinion and should not be taken as fact; I am open for debate...

Ralph

[DrWhat]

Notice the elbows. Eg one is outstretched, the other is bent.

[ruggerodk]

Martin:

Maybe most Important fact is still what ruggero found but a bit more important is, it is nearly exact ratio of Golden Section and yeah thats somethin.

Wow...That's a great discovery, Martin. I'm no math genius but Fibonaci and Golden Mean/Ratio I know (graphics you know).
I did notice the spacing too, but not the different size. Very good eyes...;-) Did you notice that the right screwed figure is positioned higher on the rod than opposite?

I'm keen to hear what more you'll find.

mindsweeper:
Yes, I think spirals have some major importance to the function of Bessler's wheel. But maybe it's applied in a different way than we expect: It could be a simple turn of the "hammer-jack-toy" around a vertical axle (as shown on the toy page).
Like Martin suggested: Turn the picture 90°.

Which remind me of the socalled "Bolts" that were screwed into or onto both shaft ends.
Perhaps these bolts could regulate the angle of the "hammer-jack" or their equavalent lever rods (or jacks)...?

Ralph:

Why is it off-center; because it moves back and forth with the parallel bar that it is attached to. The toy has a handle on each opposing ends of the bars, moving one right and the other left and the so called anvil move half the distance relative to the hammers.

I'm not getting your point – This doesn't explain why it is off-center, as the anvil will move with the handle anyhow you place the anvil: I'ts fixed to a certain spot on the rod.
If you mean that the anvil is sliding relative to the angle of the hammer-men, I would be able to see some reason.....but what do you reckon could made it slide?

Could "Ghost swing" possibly be the same as Bessler said "Shadow boxer"???

regards
ruggero ;-)