Apologia Poetica Translation

[Stewart]

so we are back to Jonathan's curving jack?

That's one possibility, so is the A/B toy on the MT toys page - or maybe Bessler is just telling us what he likes to have for dinner! ;-)

Stewart

[Stewart]

Hi Rufus & Ralf

Thanks very much for posting your own translations. As Ovyyus said, we all seem to be getting roughly the same thing.

Ralf, you said:
"Okay, we all agree that the text is a lyrical interpretation of the thing. But the exact specifications are simply not there. What is a "dog"? What a "cat", or a "horse"? What kind of "bow"? Are the "poltergeists" the alleged actions of his scheming "enemies" or invisible physical forces, or both? The possibilities of what specific mechanisms, shapes and metal combinations were used are nearly endless. Numbers and relations are missing, too, as far as I can see it.
If anyone could have used this text to replicate his PM wheel, I am sure his immediate "enemies" would have done it..."

I don't think it's possible to work out Bessler's wheel from AP alone. Bessler says near the beginning of this section of AP: "My work will not be revealed prematurely". I don't think he would have risked giving anything away in AP in any obvious form. I think his main purpose of this part of AP was to get something into print that he could use later to prove the date of his wheel design. If he needed to he could reveal the innards of his wheel and say "this part is the dog, here is the cat, these are the mice" and their interactions as described in AP would be obvious when looking at the working wheel. However, we have one big thing in our favour that the people reading AP at the time didn't, and that is MT (Machinen Tractate). It's possible to piece the wheel together from parts shown in MT, and the AP descriptions help by confirming when you have a piece(s) right. I also think Bessler has slipped in some subtle clues in the rest of the AP text, and of course the image at the end is a big clue.

It's obviously very important to get the best translation possible if we are going to use this part of AP to confirm a wheel design - one wrong interpretation of a word or phrase can put you right off track! That's why even though I think I understand parts of it I like to keep refining the translations and look for other meanings, just in case. So bear with me as here I go again...

Ralf - you said you were having trouble with the word(s) Schniebe-Käulgen. Have you had any further luck translating this? I am also struggling with that one. My latest attempt is as follows:

I discovered these spelling changes to help with translating old German text (older form -> newer form):

i.e. -> long i (giebt -> gibt)
short ä -> e (Eräugnis -> Ereignis; Hende -> Hände)
final ss and final s vary (Ereigniss or Ereigniß)
th -> t (Thor -> Tor)
c -> k
ß, z, tz somewhat variable for each other at ends of words(may be a factor of typeface)
d varies with t
p varies with b
ü varies with i
-iren as a verb suffix varies with -ieren

This shows "äu" being replaced with "ei", so I changed Käulgen -> Keilgen.

Translating keil I got "wedge" and keilen "to wedge".
Then I added Schniebe but dropped the "n" to give:

Schiebekeil which translates as "pusher" or "sliding wedge".

The whole phrase is:

Die Kinder spielen auf den Säulgen
Mit lauter schweren Schniebe-Käulgen;

The children play on the columns/pillars
with lots of/louder heavy/hard pushers/sliding wedges;

What if we do the same thing we did with Käulgen to the word Säulgen...

Säulgen -> Seilgen

Seil translates as cord/rope/tightrope

Could another possible translation be:

The children play on the ropes/tightropes
with lots of/louder heavy pushers/sliding wedges;

Other thoughts:
Could Schniebe be Schneibe which means blade/cutting edge?
Could Käulgen be Keulen which means maces/clubs?

It's still not very clear, but I'm hoping this might give you some ideas.
It does seem that Schniebe-Käulgen is some kind of tool/weapon - I don't know why but I keep thinking of words like sledge-hammer, club-hammer, pick-axe etc.
I'll keep at it...

Best Wishes
Stewart

[Tinhead]

Die Kinder spielen auf den Säulgen
Mit lauter schweren Schniebe-Käulgen;

Hi Stewart,
my bits&pieces to that.
You are right, äu can sometimes be replaced with eu.
There is something about the extension ..gen I should explain. In 'new' german that would be the extension ..chen.
It .. hmmm, hard to explain .. describes a smaller version of something (the word it is attached to).
For example:
In German , Pferd means Horse. Add ..chen = Pferdchen and it represents a small horse .. a pony, or even a toy horse.

So:
Säulgen = Säule & gen = a small pillar
Käulgen = Keule & gen (you are right, in this case äu = eu) = a small club .. toy club? (he mentions children ... )

About the Schniebe , have to admit I'm clueless about what the meaning was in old german, I'll have a look for it.
Today it is 'slang' in some areas of germany. In some areas it stands for sneezing, or to blow your nose. In other areas it stands for snowing, so beat me.
I think the sneezing might come the closest .. at least it represents some kind of 'compulsive' action.

Cheers,
Rainer

P.S. just popping up my mind, Schniebe-Käulgen, reminds me of a child's toy. Those toy-clubs with the 'mini' kind of bellow on top of them to make noise when you hit something.

[Stewart]

Hi Rainer

Thanks for your help.

So we have Säulgen -> Säulchen -> little pillars/columns

The children play on the little/toy pillars/columns

I found references to Schniebe as sniff, snort & snow
I also got club, joint, leg & mace for Keule
Very confusing!

So Käulgen -> Keulechen -> little/toy clubs

The children play on the little/toy pillars/columns
With loud heavy little/toy [Schniebe]-clubs.

How else could the words be arranged? Could it be as follows...

The children play loudly on the little pillars with heavy little clubs.
or
The children play heavily on the little pillars with loud little clubs.
or
The children play on the pillars with heavy little clubs loudly.
etc

I used to imagine the children actually standing on the columns when I read this. Now I imagine them using the clubs to hit little columns (playing on the columns with the clubs). This reminds me of the wooden hammer and peg toy - see attachement. I've also attached a picture of the squeaky hammer toy ("sneezing-club"?) I think you are talking about.
I wonder whether they had those in Bessler's time. If that is what Bessler is talking about, then the hammer could be a weighted pendulum with shock-absorbing springs to store energy on impact.

All the best
Stewart

[Stewart]

The squeaky hammer toy reminded me of a patent I once saw. Imagine the hammer with springs instead of bellows, swinging like a pendulum and hitting against something and bouncing back. The patent has the springs fixed to the frame and not attached to the pendulum. The patent is U.S. Patent Number 4,422,530 (1983) - "Pendulum structure", and the inventor says "This invention is a pendulum structure that operates as near as possible as a perpetual motion machine to provide activity and entertainment to one using same."

Stewart

[Stewart]

Lufft-Springer Feder-Fechter sind
Geschwind und hurtig wie der Wind/

I found out that "Federfechter" is the name of a German fencing society founded in the 16th Century. It means "feather-fencers" - there is a quill on their coat of arms (see attachment). Here is a link with more info:
http://www.swordhistory.com/excerpts/marx.html

Lufft-Springer translates as Air-Jumper. What's an air jumper? In modern times this could be taken as a sky-diver. In Bessler's time it must refer to some sort of acrobat, but I think it's more specific than acrobat... any ideas?

As there is no "und" between Lufft-Springer and Feder-Fechter, does that mean that it can be read as "Air-jumping Federfechters are swift and spry like the wind", or are they seperate?

Stewart

[Stewart]

Die schlaue Katze schleichet leise/
Und haschet feine fette Mäuse/
Der Hund auch auß der Hütten kreuch't/
Doch nur so weit die Kette reich't/
Die schönen Schätzgen und Machinen
Weiß er sehr freundlich zu bedienen/
Er wädelt wohl mit seinem Schweiff/
Kriecht auf dem Bauche durch den Reiff/
Dafür ihn bald die dürren Poppen
Auch ziemlich auf die Pfoten kloppen; x.


Die schlaue Katze schleichet leise/
Und haschet feine fette Mäuse/
The clever cat creeps quietly and catches fine fat mice.

Der Hund auch aus der Hütten kreuchet/
Doch nur so weit die Kette reichet/
The dog also [kreuchet] from the huts, however only as far as the chain will reach.

I can't find the meaning of "kreuchet", can anyone help with this please?

Die schönen Schätzchen und Machinen
Weiß er sehr freundlich zu bedienen/
It knows how to operate the fine little treasures and machinery very well.

Er wedelte wohl mit seinem Schweif/
Kriecht auf dem Bauche durch den Reif/
He wags his tail well, creeps on the belly through the rime(type of frost)/hoop?

For "Reif" I get "rime/hoarfrost/circlet".
For "Reifen" I get "hoop".

Dafür ihn bald die dürren Poppen
Auch ziemlich auf die Pfoten kloppen
Soon the [dürren] [Poppen] also hit him quite on the paws for it.

What is "die dürren Poppen"? I somehow managed to get "skinny dolls", but not much else that makes any sense.

Stewart

[Jonathan]

Hoohoo! I got a bunch of stuff for you Stewart, that gives a very different interpretation! I'm lost as to how any of it relates to his machine.
Keuchte: gasped, panted, wheezed
Keuchten: to puff and blow
Hütten: shanties, hovels, cottages, huts, cots
Reif:(same)
Dürren: aridities, droughts

Putting it together I get:
The clever cat creeps quietly and catches fine fat mice.
The dog also pants from the huts, however only as far as the chain will reach.
It knows how to operate the fine little treasures and machinery very well.
He wags his tail well, creeps on the belly through the frost.
Soon the [dürren] [Poppen] also hit him quite on the paws for it.

As for "poppen", you can read it yourself here. Based on all the other verses, I interpret "dürren" as somehow related to "in heat". That wolf from the cartoons comes to mind.
But this interpretation does hinge on "poppen" being correctly translated, without it these verses can be taken any one of the other ways we had been taking them. So maybe the words changed and it is just a coincidence that this makes (seemingly irrelevant) sense too. Does anyone else get a different translation?

[Stewart]

Hi Jonathan

Thanks for your help! I got the same for Poppen, but didn't think it made any sense. But maybe it does, he is talking about a dog after all - I've now got visions of it dragging its privates through the frost and then humping someones leg! However "Poppen" is capitalised which suggests its a noun. I think you are right with "Keuchet" being "Keuchte" and therefore "pants".

Stewart

[Jonathan]

You and Epi really have a flair for subtle imagery. :D
EDIT PS In the third quadrant of the Federfechter coat of arms are two swords with wings, which seems vaguely related to air-jumping too. In regards to the capitalization of 'poppen', I noticed that too, which is why I suggest that others try translating it too. Maybe JC knows how Mike came to his version?

[John Collins]

Stewart you wrote

I can't find the meaning of "kreuchet", can anyone help with this please?

It means "crouching" according to Mike Senior. Jonathan you looked up keuchet not kreuchet.

"die dürren Poppen" was translated as "stiff fops" which I will aske Mike about tomorrow when we meet at the Tiltyard for our weekly pie-and-pint.

Although I applaud your efforts Stewart, it seems to me that you have got more or less the same as what Mike Senior first translated for me back in 1997.

[Tinhead]

"die dürren Poppen"

dürr stands for extremly thin/slim. Close to starvation. Dürr (thin) as a scarecrow.

Poppen the extension ...en is used to define multiples of something. So , the singular is Poppe or Pope. Don't mix it up with the english word 'Pope' that would be 'Papst' in german. But still it defines a highly religious man involved in church politics .. a priest, for example. "Dürr" also points towards this, they were very often quite .. extrem.

At those times they were like religious watchdogs, making sure that noone went of the track ( the church rules/laws). Might be a hint towards that the existing physical 'laws' control the 'dogs' behaviour.

Cheers,
Rainer

[Michael]

No disrespect to John's opinion Stewart. Keep up the good work. Different interpretations can be helpful. Crouching and air jumper have more specific meanings than just acrobat. It made me rethink an old idea that I am now going to post.

Reg.

Mike

[Jonathan]

I am aware the I looked up "keuchte" instead of "kreuchet", because I couldn't find the latter. I want to stress that I don't mean to question Mike's ability to translate. It is surprising that anything I translate makes any sense at all, and it is further surprising that section can be taken so many ways.

[John Collins]

Rereading my post I think it seems a bit harsh and I didn't mean it to, because as Jonathan says, we need different interpretations of the original text and Stewart, your work is, as I said, applauded - don't stop.

I'm going to ask Mike for his comments on this phrase "dürren Poppen".

While we're on the subject of this passage, I've always been slightly puzzled by the fact that the stiff fops, or whatever they are, reward the dog with pats on his paws. Why his paws? You don't pat a dog on its paws, you pat his head. I think it sounds as if he is describing a mechanical action very precisely. The paws are the points where the 'dog' is attached to the wheel, and the 'fops' bend and at the limit of their bend they tap the 'dogs' paws. If the 'dog' is upright at a particular point during rotation of the wheel, then the 'fops' must be under, but to one side so that when they bend, they tap the 'dogs' paws.

The tapping of the paws does not have to be part of the reaction - it may just be a pointer to the setup of the mechanism.