A very real case for the patent lawyers

[nicbordeaux]

My interests (some of) are old bicycle collecting and restoration, and of late "alternative energy".

Today I came across what I consider a miracle, and it really blows my mind.

A bicycle with a "system" drive (in bike collecting terms "system" refers to bizarre contraptions for achieving a purpose already achieved by simpler means)

This system takes the form of a bolt on device weighing a ton. The cranks and pedals are attached to it. It ain't a gearbox like many of these bolt on attachements from way back. It is as far as I can make out a massive flywheel with four arms which slide out under centrifugal force. It is called a ""entrainemenent de velo" meaning a bicycle drive. Not transmission, drive. The nuance may appear subtle or even misconstrued, but it ain't. I think there is a "KERS" principle to the gizmo, and also a variable ratio of transmission. It looks like a PM rotary engine design atempt taken to the preindustrial stage. The level of engineering just from taking a peek inside the slot from where the chain would emerge is amazing.

I haven't taken it apart, so how can I figure this out ? Because, and this is the fun, I have the original patent docs with it, with the numbers. Three consecutive patents. Hoping I can get records of the full original filing from the patent office here, but a bit dubious.

What is marvelous is that I have a toy which epitomizes (thx google) the very essence (overdoing it ?) of both interests.

And it also fulfills a desire to own a device somebody worked on for a lifetime, a device which contains the spirit of a guy who had an idea, refused to let it go, got optimistic or single minded, and went all the way through to making a fearfully complex device. Heck, it might even work :)

The question : if the patent has expired, can I submit the same documents and device and get a patent? Because whoever this guy was (well, I have his name, but no more so far) I owe it to him to make sure his contraption is patented again.

I know I'm mad, but I wouldn't be here if I was sane :)

More info in a couple of weeks when it arrives here and I can start examining it properly. The device, and the paperwork. The people who owned it up until today spent 8 years and never figured out what it is, they are really major collectors, and their word is : no other such thing known in the world.

[jim_mich]

The question : if the patent has expired, can I submit the same documents and device and get a patent?

No! An idea or device can only be patented once! After the patent expires then anyone can make, use or sell the invention. That is the main reason for governments to issue patents. Initially the inventor gains an advantage then after the patent expires society gains from knowing and being able to use the invention.

[nicbordeaux]

Thx Jim, I should have sussed that one out by myself :)

Whatever, the device is now mine, mine , mine, all mine (insane cackling). Society shall not gain from knowing and being able to use the invention, whether the thing works or not. It'll go on show in a small private museum, but it's precise inner workings shall never be revealed. Never, ever. I will post pictures of the outside, and some of the exploded drawings of parts of it, but it will remain my secret !!!!!

[broli]

That's the spirit. Show the world who's boss.

[jim_mich]

It'll go on show in a small private museum, but it's precise inner workings shall never be revealed.

All one needs to know is the inventor's name or the patent number and a quick search will reveal the patent with all of its details showing the precise inner workings of the device. Or with a lot of extra work one could search all bicycle related patents issued in the last ten years or so (about 3000 USA patents) looking for an inventor with three or more bicycle patents.

[docfeelsgood]

i once had a 1915 Pope "Seminole" , wood rims , leaf spring front end , huge sturmy gearbox , hard boiled leather chain guard , etc. . but the top tube was cracked off . took it to a FRIEND with more capability than i to repair it properly . years go by , no fix . went to retrieve it , "sorry i gave it away" !!! taken me a few more years to learn its location . now its my turn !!!

not the only instance where your so called friends will try ta hoo doo ya !!!

even had several offers on this old pm machine where someone would volunteer to do me a favor and come pick it up !! Ya Right !!!

my advice ,, keep yer distance !!!! i have no "friends" !!!! People Suck !!!!!

[rlortie]

Doc,

You can find a catalog regarding your 1915 Pope "Seminole" here:

http://www.vintagecolumbiabikes.com/id74.html

http://www.vintagecolumbiabikes.com/id84.html

Nick may also find these links of interest,click on various side bar sites for a lot of history on bicycles and early mopeds.

Lot of reminiscence here that I can relate too!


Ralph

[docfeelsgood]

Ralph ;

thanks for the link . i will order a brochure . twice that old bike won the 50 mile road race around a large lake . the owner was leading the pack a good ways and he saw a hombre jump behind a tree . he stopped short and noticed a lot of tacks in the road . beat that hombre to a pulp and continued on to win the race . as told to me by the original owners son . that old bike meant a lot to me . sometimes you have to keep things around for the good they have been !!!

perhaps thats why yer ole lady keeps you around . lol .

[rlortie]

The only reason my old lady keeps me around is my SS check is slightly larger than hers. LOL

[greendoor]

nicb - this thread reminded me of a bicycle invention I saw once that I thought was pure genius, and should have taken the world by storm. Maybe you could do something with it ...

It was an extremely simple variable speed chaindrive. No need to flick through 16 speeds - just pedal at your desired RPM, and this automatically adjusted the gear ratio to the conditions. It was as simple as a large sprocket that changed diameter against spring tension. The more force you applied to the pedal, the smaller the sprocket got. I imagine you could engineer an even better version using something resembling the Iris Diaphragm that varies the Aperature in an analog camera.

[nicbordeaux]

It'll go on show in a small private museum, but it's precise inner workings shall never be revealed.

All one needs to know is the inventor's name or the patent number and a quick search will reveal the patent with all of its details showing the precise inner workings of the device. Or with a lot of extra work one could search all bicycle related patents issued in the last ten years or so (about 3000 USA patents) looking for an inventor with three or more bicycle patents.

Not so fast Jim. You'd have to go back to the 1940's. that's an awful lot of patent research if you don't have the number :)

[nicbordeaux]

nicb - this thread reminded me of a bicycle invention I saw once that I thought was pure genius, and should have taken the world by storm. Maybe you could do something with it ...

It was an extremely simple variable speed chaindrive. No need to flick through 16 speeds - just pedal at your desired RPM, and this automatically adjusted the gear ratio to the conditions. It was as simple as a large sprocket that changed diameter against spring tension. The more force you applied to the pedal, the smaller the sprocket got. I imagine you could engineer an even better version using something resembling the Iris Diaphragm that varies the Aperature in an analog camera.

The industral intertia is so great on chain and cog to parallelogram deraileur transmission/shift that all other designs have flopped. Except the venerable Sturmey Archer rear hub gear changer, but that's England where people potter around on bikes, they don't have tesosterone like us in France (the Great Latin Lover is also a born cyclist). Shimano with the "nexus" hub change are finding it difficult to find more than a niche market.

A little history : first racing bikes of the modern era (circa 1905+) had two gears, flipflop hub, meaning a cog each side, usually a freewheel and a fixed. Wanna change gear ? Hop off the bike, flip the wheel, hey presto. There was a great resistance to any other system because it was believed that a straight chainline was the only way to go. Anyway, anybody wanting to know about history of bicycle transmission want's to read a book caled "The Dancing Chain". Hard to get and mine's not for sale !

There were many attempts at variable ratio centrifugal and other stuff with chain or belt drive, but efficiency didn't compare to a chain drive. Plus the public wasn't interested. Average Joe want's what the big racers use. It's culturally ingrained. And the weight has to be comparable.

There is a new tendancy, a fad, where hippies ride around on fixed gear bikes with no brakes. No brain, no brakes = extinction. Less global warming from hippies.

Otherwise, the main problem is that a human isn't a machine, the wattage is far from constant. On a long ride sometimes you want to torque it up a hill, sometimes you want to drop to 32-28 and spin you're so dog-tired. The variable transmission removes this possibility. I see it having utilitarian aplications. Unless you can easily adjust the variation in "dia" of your expanding chainwheel. This wattage variation cycle moves around a lot as you get into longer rides.

As to efficiency, to get back on topic, I think a well lubed modern chain drive (inline) is hard to beat. Put a belt on there and you're into the 0.8 range.

[nicbordeaux]

i once had a 1915 Pope "Seminole" , wood rims , leaf spring front end , huge sturmy gearbox , hard boiled leather chain guard , etc. . but the top tube was cracked off . took it to a FRIEND with more capability than i to repair it properly . years go by , no fix . went to retrieve it , "sorry i gave it away" !!! taken me a few more years to learn its location . now its my turn !!!

not the only instance where your so called friends will try ta hoo doo ya !!!

even had several offers on this old pm machine where someone would volunteer to do me a favor and come pick it up !! Ya Right !!!

my advice ,, keep yer distance !!!! i have no "friends" !!!! People Suck !!!!!

You want to pay somebody to "persuade" whoever has that bike that it's your's. valuable and very interesting machine !!!

[rlortie]

Did some one say something about no brakes!

YOU'VE GOT TO WATCH THIS. YOU WON'T BELIEVE YOUR EYES. NO MAGIC. JUST A GUY WHO KNOW HOW TO RIDE A BIKE.

I thought. I'm not interested in this. Then I couldn't turn it off. Then I thought of what his Mother must have been thinking when the said he was just going off to ride his bike!!!

As you watch this, it just keeps getting more and more insane!!! Click the link below.



http://link.brightcove.com/services/pla ... 1337502001

[John Lindsay]

The bike video is tops! There is a video called "The Wheelie King" worth checking out. I think this guy did a wheelie for something like 168 miles before the call of nature kept him from going any further. John