Can Bessler's wheel be patented?

[rlortie]

YEA!!!!

Doc and chap both win, and if they are dating themselves then I must be too! Dig out the Wildroot Charlie, it'l keep your DA in trim!

[mickegg]

....Getting back on track:


www.is4profit.com/business-advice/gener ... 4wodlRlEpw

Looks like some useful information here about patents and what is required.


Regards

Mick

[FunWithGravity2]

IMHO,

Even if the principle/working wheel was announced open forum/sourced But had been concieved and perfected by someone else who had properly documented it or already filed provisional in the USA that person could still patent it provided it had not been open sourced by another prior to any documentation on the original inventors behalf.

Even if you had a wheel or mech that held striking similarities to besslers or anothers prior art it would not hold much credo in the USA if their was not a clear documented case of following the succesful path of bringing it to completion. A drawing on the web 2 years ago would be laughed at if the authour tried to start an interferance proceeding with the USPTO. He would have to show that he reduced that drawing to practice in a timely manner. Which i would guess would not be the case. Once he saw the working wheel patented by someone else its a little late to reduce to practice.


to answer your ridiculous question, yes a bessler wheel can be patented. I have a strikingly different path that i would suggest that goes 180 from Jim_Mich's plan but it at least offers another side of the coin.


1, Get a working concept.
2, Get it Properly documented and send a PPA to the USPTO, this will lock in your invention as early as possible.
3, Don't tell a soul, except for those who you have decided to use as witness's
4, Wait and perfect everything, make sure your full application for patent is rock solid, spend the big bucks and hire real patent attorneys.
5, don't tell a soul, make sure you file the approriate documents so that the USPTO does not publish your files early.
6. Search the world for the appropriate buyer or decide how you will open source when it is yours finally.
7. Wait 3-4 years until you have a fully patented device or method and then have fun.

This have fun part only works if you have a real working running energy producing device, not just one of the many non working FE jokes filed with the USPTO.


Why so much the secrecy? it will ensure the rats don't come out until its to late for them. By announcing it early you allow every nut case to fight the application because of some ridiculous unfollowed through with piece of prior art they have. By allowing everyone to know your dates of when things happened and allowing them in that early in the process if anyone was close but did not fully have it you are now telling them it works and they should follow through with it. If by chance they started before you they might now have full rights to the invention. If you force them to wait 3-4 years plus the 1 year it took for the PPA they would never be able to predate your initial discovery and even if they did it would be useless for the to start an interferance based on the fact that they were close several years earlier. It would be obvious to the USPTO that they did not see how to make it work until after you patented it. Hence boo hoo for them.

Prior art and unobviousness go hand in hand, pictures are worth a thousand words but if you can't figure out how to look at them then it doesn't really matter that they exist.

Once you have the patent in hand it becomes the other persons burden of proof to prove they came before you. If you have a several year window where you were very secretive you have made a very nice padding for them to try to overcome. And unless they had discovered it and put it to use before you then you win. And if they did then the USPTO would probably also have their application before your final and it would be worked out then.

Document
Document
Document


Crazy Dave

[winkle]

And unless they had discovered it and put it to use before you then you win

they don't have to put it to use they only have to prove original thought which is all that a patent is about at least in the US

patents are about intellectual property has nothing to do with a finished product in most situations

intellectual property is the thing that resides inside that round bone that sits on top you're neck

but he would be required to prove priority

[docfeelsgood]

In my opinion only , if someone were to come up with a running wheel and it was based on Johanns principle . then i bet the trunk lid will fly open and some original Bessler material will magically appear .
there are still relatives out there and some LURK on this forum .

[John Collins]

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions - but I am still not sure why one would patent the invention other than to secure financial reward.

Leaving that aspect aside, even though I know there some who demand that it should be patented for what seem to them to be good reasons, it seems to me that the end result of patenting it, would result in enormous costs to obtain world wide coverage; continuous policing, in effect, like trying to dam a tsunami with a couple of sandbags; the sure and certain fact that someone else will supersede the patent with an improved one; and the distinct possibility that one or more governments will take control either before it is granted or soon after leaving the patentee with a bag of peanuts.

Returning to the financial reward point, just publishing the information in, say, a book, would generate more than enough money for most of us here. More money would flow in from the media etc etc.

Now that may appear to be a negative view of patents, but then weighing up the pros and cons I think I'll stick with my original plan and just publish - publish and be damned. All I have to do now is make the *!-&#ing thing!

JC

[AB Hammer]

JC

Look how many gas motors are patented. Each one became a derivative of another. So what do you think will become of the wheel? If you give it out, big business will have variations patented and you will have just gave it all away. But if you have the patent. You will have at least early control and your name will not become obscure to history. Just ask around who invented the automobile and you will see only the one who advertised the most will be remembered for the credit.

Not to mention until your book and this forum. How many people remembered Bessler for the wheel, outside of being a fraud in obscure paragraphs ?

[FunWithGravity]

The working wheel will have a mechanism that has never been used in the way that it will and even relatives and crackpots will not be able to get any piece of the pie. Unobviousness my friends. I doesn't matter what intelectual property you thought you had. You might want to do a little reading. If you had it you would have it clearly documented and have a patent in your name. If you think your going to jump a patent or start an interferance for some old intellectual property then you might want to start calling attorneys now and put the house on the market. The working wheel will have a new and novel use of a mechanism and it will most likelybe the ONLY way to do it efficiently. Of course anyone will also patent along with their mechanical arrangement any other electrical ways of switching/latching moving that also exploit the same method.


Onto method, it will absolutley be patentable. along with your apparatus patent you should have a clear understanding of you method and if you think many variations are going to come popping up i believe your crazy. Like a swinging atwoods machine or a choas pendulum or any other sytem that requires precise ratios if they are documented and can only operate between x and y parameters then you have a rock solid covering of your method. It would be like finding the detonation ratios for all combustible fuels and patenting those ratios along with your first internal combustion engine. Along with your mechanical design you have now said that anyone who tries to compress/detonate any of the following materials inside of a chamber for the expressed purpose of creating a useable power source violates your patent.


Anyway, this is an argument that has been going on since the inception of this board and appears to be going nowhere. It has also been brought up by JC at least once a year for the past 6 years. Yawnnn. I hope whoever has a working wheel open sources it. But be prepared that an application may already be in process with the USPTO for your/similar design. If you don't know how that would be handled then your in need of some serious research.


Crazy Dave

[John Collins]

Thanks Crazy, but as I said, I don't believe I would patent it anyway. I just like the idea of giving it away. It's not as if I have anything worth patenting yet, any way.

JC

[jim_mich]

SIR, just give it away! If you intend to give it away then at least do it right and proper. Yes it will cost you a little, but with all that money coming from book sales you should be able to afford to do it the right and proper way so that there is no question as to what you gave away.

[nicbordeaux]

Approach some people with interest in oil, and politely ofer them the choice of coughing up three trillion or having a device published which will remove the need for oil ? Make sure of course that nobody knows that you are approaching these people, and arrange to meet them nightly in a spot where the foundations of a giant building are going to be poured the very next morning.

[daxwc]

JC

I agree with Jim, best to give it away properly with all the patent problems right now. Where do you draw the line between patent troll behavior and a legitimate inventor protecting his creation before he can bring it to market?

Reading these websites and reseaching might change your mind JC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_troll

http://news.cnet.com/Rise-of-the-patent ... 92996.html

http://it.toolbox.com/blogs/infosphere/ ... tion-35050

http://www.rent-an-inventor.com/patentfight.htm

tks

[John Collins]

Thanks Jim, I must have missed that posting when you originally made it. I'm going to see if the UK has something similar, I'm sure it must have.

JC

[WaltzCee]

SIR, just give it away! If you intend to give it away then at least do it right and proper. Yes it will cost you a little, but with all that money coming from book sales you should be able to afford to do it the right and proper way so that there is no question as to what you gave away.

:), yep, sir.

Walter

[MuffinMan]

Isn't there anyone on this forum with actual certainty and knowledge of the legalities surrounding the patent process? Maybe someone knows a patent attorney?