Can Bessler's wheel be patented?

[jim_mich]

MuffinMan, I'm not an attorney but I'm fairly knowledgeable concerning patents. What is it that you want to know?

I highly recommend "Patent It Yourself" by patent attorney David Pressman, published by Nolo Press.

From the cover:

Everything you need to create a successful patent application.

• Step-by-step instructions
• All the necessary forms
• Real world examples
• Patent searches
• The latest Patent Office rules

Thoroughly explains the patent process... and has all the forms and instructions needed to patent a product...

The best roll-up-your-sleeves guide for filers who don't want to pay a ransom.

Presents complicated procedures in easily digested chunks, with plenty of old-fashioned good advice.

The most definitive, complete and current do-it-yourself book ever written.

I have the 1995, 4th edition and the 2004, 10th edition. This book is revised and new editions printed as the laws change, so get the latest edition. It is mostly about patenting in the USA but has chapters on patenting in other countries from an American perspective. Writing a patent application is very similar in most countries.

I've read this book a number of times. And I go back to it whenever needed.

If someone were to come up with an actual physical working wheel then it would most definitely be patentable. Of course the patent office will hassle you somewhat and you'll need to show proof that it actually works. If you claimed that a wheel works but in fact it fails to work then you would be guilty of fraud and any patent based on fraud is not legal.

By the way, I am not in favor of just giving away a PM wheel. But for those who think giving it away is the best way to go then the proper way to give it away is to use the patent office "Statutory Invention Registration" which is abbreviated as "SIR".

[MuffinMan]

Jim,

Thanks for the reference, I will check into that if I ever have the need...

I am not really looking for anything specific, it just seems as I read through this that there is a lot of "shooting from the hip" going on and that some likely are just assuming or guessing.

[jim_mich]

Many people do not understand the patent system. There is a lot of disinformation about patent here on the forum. I used to attempt to correct any erroneous postings but finally gave up concerning patents. I just tell everyone to read the book. Don't wait until you have a working wheel. The book is so full of information it takes quite a while to read and absorb. You cannot just sit down and read it cover to cover. You must read it in pieces so your mind has time to digest and absorb all the information. Then you must go back and read it a second time to pick up much of the small details that you miss during the first reading.

If you find the subject uninteresting then you'll be unable to read it. I fund the subject of patents very interesting because I contemplate that one of these days I'll file a patent application for a PM wheel.

[winkle]

MuffinMan

the last thing you would want to do is come up with absolute unquestionable proof that you have reproduced Bessler's wheel

that is the only thing that would make a gravity wheel unpatentable

patents are about original thinking that's why it's called intellectual property and gives you intellectual property rights

while it's true that you are required to present drawings and claims to the USPTO that does not alter that the patent will be issued based on original thinking

the paper work requirments are to give proof of original thinking and are to protect the original thoughts

proving that you had built a true reproduction of Bessler's wheel would not be original thinking

hope that helps a little

[FunWithGravity2]

Birds could fly, icarus had wings and Davinci drew many flying machines. An yet the wright boys were given a patent. Wasn't an original idea just a new and unobvious way to get it done that won them the prize. fear not the disinformation machine.

Read David Presmans book, Like jim says, DO IT NOW. over and over and over.

It is a fountain of knowledge, almost everything in its something new to me and i find it the most interesting and stimulating reading in quite some time.

And winkle if you do not want to read it the most valuable thing that i can say is if you do find PM you should protect yourself ASAP with a Post office Patent (*pop) mail yourself a complete description of your wheel and never open it until the USPTO asks for it. If someone else says they have it you can trump them with that POP.


Crazy Dave

[ovyyus]

the last thing you would want to do is come up with absolute unquestionable proof that you have reproduced Bessler's wheel

That won't happen unless someone uncovers explicit working plans authored by Bessler himself... unlikely.

[jim_mich]

Page 3/32 of Patent It Yourself (10th Edition)...

J. Don't Use the So-Called "Post Office Patent" to Document Your Invention

There's a myth that you can document the date you conceived of your invention (or even protect your invention) by mailing a description of your invention to yourself by certified (or registered) mail and keeping the sealed envelope. In fact, law regards the use of these "Post Office Patents" as tantamount to worthless and no substitute for the signatures of live witnesses on a description of your invention, or even for the PTO's Disclosure Document Program. The PTO's Board of Appeals and Patent Interference, which has great power in these matters, has specifically said that it gives a sealed envelope little evidentiary value.

[winkle]

bFunWithGravity2 wrote

Birds could fly, icarus had wings and Davinci drew many flying machines. An yet the wright boys were given a patent.

dang lucky for the Wright brothers that none of those mentioned built an airplane

Wasn't an original idea just a new and unobvious way to get it done that won them the prize

new and unobvious way to build the first airplane sounds a heck of a lot like an original idea to me and you can bet you're a%% it did to the USPTO too

And winkle if you do not want to read it the most valuable thing that i can say is if you do find PM you should protect yourself ASAP with a Post office Patent (*pop) mail yourself a complete description of your wheel and never open it until the USPTO asks for it. If someone else says they have it you can trump them with that POP.

only apples if you have priority and there are several ways to prove priority just depends how much effort you want to invest

never mind Jim just showed that don't apply either so i guess you're batting a thousand

my advise is to fear the disinformation machine.

well maybe just look out for people that don't know what their talking about

i drought i will ever build a working gravity wheel but i have been through the patenting process and paid a heck of a lot money for some lessons

[winkle]

eedreed

the last thing you would want to do is come up with absolute unquestionable proof that you have reproduced Bessler's wheel

That won't happen unless someone uncovers explicit working plans authored by Bessler himself... unlikely.

that's probably what take for proof

[FunWithGravity2]

POP was a joke, sorry my sarcasm wasn't understood.

"i drought i will ever build a working gravity wheel but "

Don't worry winkle, I drought you will two. :) sarcasm intended

Dave

[winkle]

sarcasm arrogance ignorance is it supposed to be of any interest to me

[scott]

don't forget satisfaction

[winkle]

good point

but still doesn't interest me

[MuffinMan]

Thanks Guys,

All good information. The problem that I have sometimes is disseminating between good information and disinformation....especially when I do not know for sure one way or the other.

Thanks for your time....

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

To JC
Hi, if you have any design then you should send in a Patent Application which only has to be a description and drawings, this will get you a priority date which gives you 12 month before you need to do any thing else, the priority date will also give you a copy right date as you have a recorded date for your design, providing it is new! Just phone the Patent Office and they will send you a application kit.

When it come's to gravity wheels, if you do not have a working model then the Patent Office say's it contravenes the Energy Conservation Laws therefore it cannot be built by a skilled person and if it cannot be built by a skilled person then your application cannot be complete, it a catch 22 that just sends the applicant around and around in circles, as you cannot prove your design has a industrial application as it cannot be built, therefore your application can be turned down.

If you build a working gravity wheel then you can argue that an inventive step most have been taken as there is no prior art on actual working gravity wheels as bessler never made a public disclosure.