Would JC contradict me ?

[John Collins]

Yes Yes - buy my book Nick!

Now come on!! You know I'd never pay anyone to promote my book, I'm much too tight! ;-)

JC

[nicbordeaux]

From WaltCzee :

I emboldened and enlarged the relevant parts because I'm sure you younuns are doing it to such an extent you're borderline blind. :)

Walter, you must still be at it hard because I look at your post for as long as I can and I can't see any emboldened pics of enlarged relevant parts you're alluding to.

Nick

[DrWhat]

John, I iMagine yOu've already goT the wheel to work but meanwhIle you are just racing tO fiNish the book LOL

[nicbordeaux]

MOTION. And you guy's specialize in code breaking ? :) (take no offense, just amused and trying to share)

[DrWhat]

Maan you are clever nicbordeaux! I see you'll be the one to crack the Bessler code ;)

[nicbordeaux]

Well, my IQ test results are in the lower 15% in French, and highly suspect in English... Which raises the matter of the mother tongue being predominent, however rusty it is and however "native fluent" you speak the "foreign" lingo :)

This I guess pertains to code breaking: however skilled a linguist you are, the implication is that you will "see" things in your mother tongue, and be a lot less clever in a languague accquired after the end of cerebral plasticity (about 1 year old as a rule ?).

[jim_mich]

Well, my IQ test results are in the lower 15% in French, and highly suspect in English...

???

[ruggerodk]

Ruggero, why pick on me ? What did I do to you ? I am probably the least qualified guy on this forum to answer questions :) Are you being paid by JC so I have to buy his book ?

Because you have hands on experience with your beam experiments; you also have an open minded attitude to see out-of-the-box and further than a textbook, and you have a way of thinking twisted enough to understand what I'm talking about. Not that I need to be understood, but I do have a fundamental need to discuss what I see and challenge my impressions.
And I like people how take mechanical disobedience seriously...and still laugh ;-)

Your point of a twisted pendulum rod and twisted horizontal bar is interesting but it could be just the low resolution's effect on a angled line. I will try to google for a high resolution image...if anyone's got a link to one, please don't hesitate to mention it here.

My next move is to experiment with these pendulums to see what they really are cabable of

regards
ruggero ;-)

[nicbordeaux]

Well, my IQ test results are in the lower 15% in French, and highly suspect in English...

???

Jim,

The point I intended was this: I'm Brit born, not been there a lot, maybe 5 years total out of nearly 50. Read a real load in English, spoke English w/ family until flew nest, so English is my mother tongue. French seems to me like the Mother tongue, been here since 73, schooled a bit, worked, friends, kids, wives, jobs. Make more spelling mistakes in English than French. Don't have to search for words. Have a much wider vocabulary.

Logic would have it that being bilingual and bicultural, IQ tests would show identical results in both languages. Well, they don't. In spite of passing as a Frenchman, and people saying I speak English with a South African accent (go figure), my IQ results are poor in French, whether in lingo aptitude or "math/abstract". In English IQ tests, I fare OK. The only explanation I can think of is that the brain functions differently in "Mother tongue mode" and "Foreign lingo mode".

So what has this to do with bessler and "PM" ? Bessler's native tongue was 18th century German. He must have when writing latin, literally transposed from "Mother" to "Foreign". Translating his work in latin straight into modern day English leaves a lot of room for missing things. The logical sequence would be Latin to German, German to English. And a lot would be missed however good the translator. Furthermore, an English scholar would not be as "sharp" in reading the original. The "intuition" part could be missing.

This definitely is not criticism of anybody who has done an admirable job of researching and translating Besler's writings and related material from the period, just that it may be necessary to look at all possible meanings of the translated result.

And furthermore, study the illustrations first with utmost attention before reading up on them. That is how I plan to operate, anyway.

[nicbordeaux]

Ruggero, why pick on me ? What did I do to you ? I am probably the least qualified guy on this forum to answer questions :) Are you being paid by JC so I have to buy his book ?

Because you have hands on experience with your beam experiments; you also have an open minded attitude to see out-of-the-box and further than a textbook, and you have a way of thinking twisted enough to understand what I'm talking about. Not that I need to be understood, but I do have a fundamental need to discuss what I see and challenge my impressions.
And I like people how take mechanical disobedience seriously...and still laugh ;-)

Your point of a twisted pendulum rod and twisted horizontal bar is interesting but it could be just the low resolution's effect on a angled line. I will try to google for a high resolution image...if anyone's got a link to one, please don't hesitate to mention it here.

My next move is to experiment with these pendulums to see what they really are cabable of

regards
ruggero ;-)

Ruggero, I'm pretty sure it isn't visual distorsion, that crossbar is either rope (which could involve a whole headache about tension increasing, sag, etc), or twisted wire, or twisted steel. As you point out the length is abnormal, which suggests lateral travel taken in conjunction with the above "threadlike" pattern/material. Also, there is something distinctly "abnormal" in the fixation of the "U" shaped part, it is distinctly offcenter, not even sure it attaches to the same mechanism, eg it attaches one side to one system, other side to another system.

You are quite right, my thinking is very twisted :) (in matters mechanical only, no wrong impressions please).

Please note that my new signature will be "If you bark up enough trees, you are bound to find a cat one day"

[ovyyus]

High resolution image of Merseburg wheel pendulum:

[Ed]

Bill just posted the pendulum from the DT woodcut. Here also is an image from the copper plate engraving from GB.



Notice how they are different. (this has also been discussed before, btw)

In the link to Stewart's post I pointed out earlier in this thread, there are more renderings of what the pendulum likely would look in 3d.





Many people on this forum have spent years studying all the Bessler images from many perspectives. I have no doubt that someone new could come in and see stuff that people who have been around here for years might have missed, but it gets old seeing some people discover some of these images and think they see Earth-shattering new clues, when most times there are other explanations that make more sense which only come from actually studying the images.

Please at least look at as much material as you can before thinking there are crazy things going on in the images.

[jim_mich]

Awhile back I extracted two high resolution pictures from John Collin's digital book "Das Triumphans".
I'll see if I can upload them here.

If Scott feels that these pictures are too big, I've also uploaded them to my person web space...

http://my.voyager.net/jrrandall/Misc/BigPict01.JPG
http://my.voyager.net/jrrandall/Misc/BigPict02.JPG

I cannot gaurantee how long they will remain here. If I run out of my allotted space I may need to eventually delete them.

I see Bill beat me posting.

[nicbordeaux]

Thank you indeed ovyyus. I stand very much corrected on the crossbar construction.
Agreed Ed, the more study before "seeing" things the better. The scans posted here are invaluable to we newbies to things Bessler.
Can anybody suggest which book shows the most comprehensive set of drawings ?

[jim_mich]

I think DT (Das Triumphans) has all the available historical drawings.