Would JC contradict me ?

[Fletcher]

Just start at the A's in Besslers MT & stop there - no need to go thru the whole alphabet [either 24 or 26 letters] - there are two types of A, sometimes in the same woodcut - a hinged cross bar signifies something of importance in the opening & closing action similar to a scissor storksbill in the toy page perhaps ?

The rantings of an asylum seeker ;7)

[docfeelsgood]

not all of the people who wander in the forest are lost .

[nicbordeaux]

Fletcher said:

" Bessler said his wheels were so simple that a single word could give it away "


Who wants to start in the dictionary and go from word to word to discover

the answer? Go through all the A's the first day and B's the next.

Within 26 days we may have it. ;)

How about looking at likely words, eg those associated with movement : hit/impact/wobble
with toys and games : dominoes/others (what games did they play back then ?)
with "medium": water / air
with musical instruments : organ
with guns : air rifle

Just some examples. Expect it's already been done :)

[nicbordeaux]

not all of the people who wander in the forest are lost .

Indeed, it may well be that they are hippies living in a cave or up a tree. Or wardens from the asylum rounding up the fugitive loonies.

[DrWhat]

And so we keep getting older looking for the solution...

Re Fletcher's comment, the As are probably the leverage concept that speeds up the rate of fall of the mass so that it is faster than G and impacts on the second wheel at the periphery (all assumptions of course).

See Bessler's MT clues!

Damian

[Fletcher]

Good attempt at using them Damian - apply a force to the 'v' bar to hasten the fall & you'd indeed have excess impetus.

Now think about what the hammer men from the toy page might show - pushing & pulling - forget the drum they hit but consider the path of the hammers, treating them as masses - they are alternately lifted up & down but also move sideways [back & forth] - this shifts the CoM net movement sideways if attached to a lever at pivot points - shifting the CoM is one relevant method when we want to speed up a falling pendulum, is it not ?! re. CoAM & angular velocity.

[path_finder]

Dear Fletcher and DrWhat,
IMHO the hammers don't represent the weights, but the timing for the locking mechanism of the weights within the two rims.
When up the hammer triggers the locker connecting the weight to the outer rim.
When down the hammer triggers the locker attaching the weight with the inner rim (allowing the lift-up for resetting the process).
But who knows?

[Fletcher]

Possibly Pathfinder - all we know is that the toy page represents some physical action(s) & the hammer men might be just a timimg & locking mechanism & not a way to shift the CoM along a lever as it falls [that's just what I think] - in the same way the 'A's might not work the way Damian has used them either but it is a place to start thinking about what they could do - some will recognize that as soon as a force is applied to the 'v' pivot to cause the lever to fall faster than 'g' would allow, that you also create a back-torque in the wheel i.e. whilst the lever with mass is pulled down the wheel is robbed of momentum by being pulled up in an equal measure due to the inertia of the objects acting against each other.

If the extra impetus is negated by a loss in momentum netting to zero gain by using the 'A' leverage with force, then I think it lends credence to the idea that the hammer men were to change CoM, IMO - we know that a swinging pendulum will speed up if its CoM is brought to a closer radius & this means more velocity & energy of impact - that might mean that the 'A's had a different purpose than Damian has suggested ?!

[nicbordeaux]

Ok, game's up lads. Just found a French site which purports to have demystified Besler's wheel totally and completely, and shows period drawing of inside workings, and a code for deciphering what links to what, eg wgat part should be keyed to which other.

http://moteur-hackenberger.over-blog.co ... 44612.html

[bluesgtr44]

Nic,

Samedi 24 mars 2007 6 24 03 2007 19:03

Le secret de Bessler

En marge de l’étude de mes moteurs, j’ai été amené à «étudier la roue de Bessler, dite roue d’Orffyreus, pensant qu’elle avait des similitudes avec mon invention.

Il y a quelques jours, j’ai eu la chance de trouver une gravure d époque dévoilant une bonne partie du mécanisme interne de la dernière roue que Bessler construisit, Kassel, dans la remise du jardinier du château de Weissenstein, avant qu’elle ne soit transportée à l’intérieur du château à la demande du landgrave de Hesse-Kassel, et modifiée par l’ajout d’un deuxième balancier.

After 2 years, how's this working out for him?


Steve

[nicbordeaux]

Steve, I have no idea, seem's he tried to sell some plans online for another device but nobody wanted to pay 15 euros (20 bucks ?) for his pdf... so one could asume he's not doing too well.

Still, the "innards" of the bessler wheel, is that a known illustration ? He's got an explanation of his own for the code. I'd say if you're not a french speaker it'b be worth putting the content through Google online translator, guaranteed 75% accurate. The missing 25% will take you 3 generations to work out :)

Whatever, of interest are some of his other pages where he shows drawings of a wheel without an axle, that's an ongoing discussion here. Bottom link called "Roue de Graillat".

Also of interest the gizmo with cones which will climb a gradient, roll back, and climb again. It may be a toy but that looks like major mechanical efficiency to me. OK, didn't spend a long time looking at it, but it's probably worth checking.

[rlortie]

The Hackenbrger machine has been discussed here; April 2007

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... highlight=

[path_finder]

When the diagram was published I made some studies on the picture discovered by Mr Hackenberger.
At that time it seemed to me that he has been abused by an hoax coming from some harmful 'friends' (the almost acceptable version).
Without giving all details I can here just give few data confirming my opinion.

Reviewing my archives it was easy for me to recover the original picture from where the manipulation has been made:
the picture 'weissensteinwheel2.jpg' showing the closed wheel can be seen at that time (not today anymore) on the web site 'http://orffyre.tripod.com/index.html'.
Indeed this picture has some particular details we cannot find on the most known Bessler wheels displayed on Internet: p.e. the shape of the pillar foot (10), the two balls at the end of the arms (8), the rugby ball(8),etc).
But most important is the cutting frame of the picture.

The comparison between the two headers of the original picture and the 'new discovered' diagram gives an evidence of an human manipulation.
I will not give here the details of binary content but only the results (anybody interested can obtain the details asking them by private mail).
The header of the original picture contents the string "LEAD Technologies Inc. V1.01" wich disappeared in the 'new' one and has been replaced by some 'null' characters (SOH) although all other binary original characters has been conserved. Idem for some another strings present in the original picture.
It's obvious that the 'new discovered' picture has been built by a graphic program starting from the original picture.

But the manipulator was not enough clever and made some additional unfortunate mistakes: the perfect quadrature of the cutting frame of the picture per example. If this 'new discovered' diagram has been scanned from an old book, it's very strange that the scanning result could be so good aligned.
In addition a good scanner cannot give a full white background (it should be a mix of some grey levels).
At least the comparison of the resolution shows that the size of the 'new discovered' diagram transmitted to Quanthomme.free.fr (so far 550x529 pixels) is exactly the double of the original picture. This is almost an exceptional coincidence for two scanned pictures basically independent.

The world of the 'free energy' is like the rest of the mankind, populated by some nasty and malicious people.
I want not to start a controversy and just to recommend to Mr Hackenberger and to the new members/guests to be more careful in the future.
My contribution for this thread was just to give my opinion on this 'new discovered' diagram.

[nicbordeaux]

Pathhfinder said (excerpt) I want not to start a controversy and just to recommend to Mr Hackenberger and to the new members/guests to be more careful in the future.

That implies de facto that "new members/guests" should be forbidden from making any suggestion or pointing to web content (my "the game is up" was saracastic, I'm not that stupid and did notice the graphics looked wrong) in case any historical or ancient member of the club has discussed the issue before.

Asking "newbies" to search the archives before posting is plain dumb, it'd take twenty decades to analyze everything.

Also I notice that nobody has commented on my post "next step" showing a form of" Atwood device" which should were anybody to build it (for themselves) show quite clearly why all your wheel designs are failing. If you fail to recognize in what respect said device would teach you anything, then you are doomed to a totaly fruitless perpetual quest, and perpetual failure, save a major miracle such as a heavenly voice speaking unto you and saying "Look here lad, put this part A into the slot in part x, link part y to.... a sort of perpetual motion by numbers present from above.

Absolutely no insult, demeaning or other negative intented, just answering a point :)

Nick

[Ed]

Nick,

path_finder didn't imply anything other than to be careful. "Newbies" are expected to do at least some simple searching, this is common on forums around the Internet and isn't specific to just this one. If you would have even used the simple search and just entered one word, hackenberger (which was in the URL you gave), you would have found at least the thread Ralph posted. Instead you posted like you'd discovered something nobody else had ever seen.

With 307 posts in a little over two months, you can quickly go from "newbie" to "ignoramus" if you aren't careful. The best way is to post loads of stuff where you admit in it that you haven't read, didn't look into, or shouldn't search.

Also many on this forum have posted stuff that then doesn't get commented on. Don't take it personal. However, if people listen to your advice and add people to their ignore list for the slightest perceived insult, then that could also explain it.

No insult intended. ;-)