Thoughts about springs

[Music_man]

When he put the wheel onto another support and reinstalled the weights in their previous positions, he pushed down on an iron spring that gave a loud noise as it expanded upwards.


Any speculation about this quote was this something inside the wheel or external?

Rick

[erick]

I believe witnesses heard a loud sound that they thought could have been a spring. I'm not so sure anyone actually saw a large spring "expand upwards".

E

[Music_man]

This is a quote from a witness that saw Besslers wheel. Does anyone have any thoughts as to what this "spring" could have been? He had displayed some of the weights and popped this "spring" after he put the weight back into the wheel?

Rick

[jim_mich]

There is always a question of what shape was the spring? Is could be a flat spring (which Bessler shows in some of the MT's) or less likely a coiled spring. It could be fixed between two objects such as between the wheel and some moving part. Or it could be fixed to only one part, say maybe the wheel and then some other part might hit against the spring. In this last case the spring might have an 'anvil' or block of some type fastened at the point of impact, which might deaden the impact noise so that it is not the obvious twang of a spring being struck.

It has been said that weights were heard gently hitting against the wheel. A spring might cause a swiftly moving weight to hit more gently, thus the noise might be just the weight hitting a wooden block fasted to the end of a spring.


Just my thoughts.

[Music_man]

Thanks Jim it almost sounds like he popped in the weights and then put some tension on the whole system by stretching and popping this spring into place. Maybe by putting this tension on the whole system is how he kept everything out of equalibrium. Just a thought

Rick

[DrWhat]

I am intrigued as how the observer (or rather "listener") determined certain characteristics of the "spring".

"When he put the wheel on to another support and reinstalled the weights in their previous positions, he pushed down on an iron spring that gave a loud noise as it expanded upwards.� (from JC)

Previous positions: how could he be sure of this?

Pushed down: he must have seen Besslers ENTIRE BODY push hard down on a large "spring" or lever since Bessler would have been hiding behind the wheel, away from prying eyes. This implies a strong push and large movement perhaps. Did a lever tighten all the cables that connected the weights together (if there were any)?

Iron spring: the sound must have been a characteristic and definite iron/metallic type of sound. Points more to a series of cables/wires needing a global tightening movement.

Expanded upwards: how was this determined? Did the wheel jolt up a little, did Besslers pushing down prior imply it sprang upwards? I believe one lever was used to tighten all the linkages inside at once.

Loud noise: to make a loud noise then it needed to click into place, so probably push something past an obstacle and click past it, into position. The perhaps single lever would maybe be pushed, lock into place and hence a loud twang was heard. The twang was all the linkages tightening (with a subtle loosening as the lever clicked into place).

A lot of assumptions are made by the observer unless such comments came from movements/sounds that were very obvious.

To me this all indicates that all the weights and levers etc were connected by a tight spiderweb-like structure, with weights levers etc held within this structure somehow.

Any thoughts?

[DrWhat]

And then pushing a lever needs to be in a place and formed in such a way as not to change the balance of the wheel. Where could this lever be placed? And was there a counterbalance to the lever on the opposite side of the wheel. If so the lever and counterbalance were using up space in the wheel.

More questions than answers as always :-(

[Music_man]

I think this would be a use of springs not as people thought that is a wound clock spring. I agree also that this may indicate that the weights were all tied together as Bessler speaks of pulleys ect. By pulling on this spring perhaps it pulled everything into alignment so the mechenism would work properly. I cant think of any other explaination for this description. Is there any other references to this anywhere by any other witnesses?

Rick

[DrWhat]

And you'd perhaps initially need to loosen the cables connecting the weights/mechanisms to allow the weights to be unlatched/unhooked.

This may be one of the best clues we are provided with should many possible options be explored.

[Music_man]

This may indicate that at least some of the weights had holes in the middle and were put on some sort of cable. the spring may have been to add tension to the whole cable system to make it as taught as possible to minimize friction as the weights went along the cable.

Is there any reference to this spring by any other witness's or is this the only time it is mentioned? Perhaps John has some info on this?

Rick

[wheelrite]

if so would the connecting/tensioning rope/chain act like a jacobs ladder connection causing a weight to 'flop out' to an overbalance position? say at 3 oclock? or to lift at 12 pm ?
Jon

[DrWhat]

And removing the weights, do the cables linkages just flop around or are they connected to a temporary hook so that don't flop around when the wheel is translocated?

[nicbordeaux]

There is always a question of what shape was the spring? Is could be a flat spring (which Bessler shows in some of the MT's) or less likely a coiled spring. It could be fixed between two objects such as between the wheel and some moving part. Or it could be fixed to only one part, say maybe the wheel and then some other part might hit against the spring. In this last case the spring might have an 'anvil' or block of some type fastened at the point of impact, which might deaden the impact noise so that it is not the obvious twang of a spring being struck.

It has been said that weights were heard gently hitting against the wheel. A spring might cause a swiftly moving weight to hit more gently, thus the noise might be just the weight hitting a wooden block fasted to the end of a spring.


Just my thoughts.

And how about a wheel which is solid axle, to the rim (inner) of the wheel are wooden slats or bars, to the axle flexible rods with a felt hammer, a lead weight or whatever you want on the end. Moving by some means (preloading) the rods so that whatever is on the end of them moves over to the other side of the slat and the rods are under tension. Moving the wheel in the right direction with a hand push would release all tha energy to either "shock" drive, or with ropes or tethers be used to set things moving about ?

Nothing particular in mind, just a flittering thought that the great brains may want to seize upon, or issue rebuke because the "idea" has been raised every two weeks for the past ten years.

[Michael]

Nothing particular in mind, just a flittering thought that the great brains may want to seize upon, or issue rebuke because the "idea" has been raised every two weeks for the past ten years.

How would you know that Nick?
:D

[nicbordeaux]

Michael : 50 years almost of having aparantly amazing thought flitter through what serves for a brain and systematically being told "Don't be stupid, that's been done before it won't work".

:)