The handkerchief, the hole and the grease...

[path_finder]

As explained above we need a mechanism giving a reversed motion.
In particular for building the hypocycloid from where we will get the sinusoidal motion along the horizontal segment.
In the drawing hereafter the blue circle if fixed to the earth ground. This circle holds the four axles where the yellow gears are rotating.
The four yellow gears are rolling around the centered red gear wich is a part of the main wheel rotating clockwise.
The all five diameters are equal (and the number of teeth also).
There are four gears for the mechanical rigidity.
As you can observe the central gear of the main wheel is just put inside the four yellow satellites.
This design is of order four, but the order three of the tri-lobed bowl ('flowerbowl') is much more efficient for the same job, especially with a reduction of the friction.In addition and as explained earlier, in the flowerbowl we can replace the gears by an assembly of rods.
See here again:http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 5fa8174021
Can we do the same with the order four?
Waiting on your suggestions.

[Fletcher]

It has nice symmetry path_finder - what's the energy source that causes it to turn i.e. where does the torque come from ? - it turns in the animation but if I were to build that on a sim program it would stand still unless there were a source of leveraged imbalance & then it would move until keeled.

[path_finder]

Dear Fletcher,
I agree completely with you.
The purpose of this drawing was not to be a prime-mover.
It was just a suggestion to obtain a reversed motion from any primary rotation.

[rlortie]

Another way to achieve this that is much simpler is to install three idlers on a spider between two disks. Or you can mount them on a stationary mount around the perimeter of two like discs.

For one wheel design I chose the latter.

Ralph

[path_finder]

Dear Ralph,
Many thanks for your contribution.
The reason why I'm focused on the satellites design (like above) is coming from my quest on the tri-lobed 'flowerbowl'.
The shot below shows obviously some rolling traces around the central tube(one of the good reasons why the purposed 'bowl for flowers' given by the archeologists is stupid).
May be Bessler instead used your way for his wheels.

[path_finder]

Dear all,
In the first post of this thread I said:

The two linkers are connected in view to implement a reciprocator

.
On the previous post I explained why the tri-lobed Sabu bowl ('flowerbowl') was a device of order three.
And I asked some clever member to suggest a linker for an order four device (like supposed to be used by Bessler).
Here is the solution in the next animation.
This is a completion of a mechanism proposed in an old post, here for memory:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?id=7135
where the rhomboidal frame is fixed to a double arm rotating cross (in yellow), and a counter-reaction coming from the equidistant points between two opposite weights, giving the desired reciprocator. The small violet wheel drives these two points with a rotation speed of twice the main wheel speed (speed doubler).
The builders will have a lot of work. The users of WM2D also, but it's not really useful, except for the mental satisfaction. In any case we need to build one.
Waiting on your comments.

[rlortie]

This is not a trailer for a spaghetti western movie.
This is just an idea coming from three items, a tentative of explaining the why.
- the handkerchief, allowing the witnesses to evaluate the shape of the weights (officially: for protect them against the grease, in fact: for hidden the hole, not detectable through the tissue)
- the hole, important part of the weights and especially at this position (radial at the middle of the cylinder)

Path_Finder,

No criticism intend but I have a problem.

This three page thread is based on an assumption that the handkerchief was covering up a 'hole'... No one saw what was under the handkerchief or what it was hiding, so what objective proof do we have that there was such a hole.

If such a hole existed for the passing of cable it would have had to extend through the weight and would have been seen by the witnesses.

All I am trying to do, is bring to light that all discussion regarding a 'hole' is enticed on an assumption.

Ralph

[path_finder]

Dear Ralph,

Weights may have been pierced in the middle and attached by connecting springs.
- Acta Eridutorum, An Account of the Perpetuum Mobile of J. E. E. Orffyreus, 1715

this is an excerpt of the besslerwheel.com site wiki

[John Collins]

Yes this an excerpt from a letter by professor Christian Wolff after he had examined the Merseberg wheel. He is only speculating.

JC

[path_finder]

Dear all,
This animation above is a theoretical description, but only the building can confirm the validity of the concept.
Like explained so many times in the pass, there is a big gap between the idea and a working wheel.
For those interested to build an example using the above animation, I can in advance precise the most difficult aspect encountered with this structure.
The violet circle holds two pivots rotating two times quicker than the main wheel, therefore there is an unavoidable crossing between the two linkers.
The only solution for solving this mechanical lock, is to arrange the two linkers in two different but parallel planes.
The drawings hereafter explain how to do the job.
The right part of the drawing is the top view
The violet circle is located in the green plane, wich is the middle plane of the structure.
BTW the two linkers (one red and one blue) between each pair of weights (respectively red and blue) are each one located at one side of the violet circle.
The crossbar (in yellow) has been duplicated for the same reason (splitted constitution), oscillating around the center of the green circle.

[AB Hammer]

path_finder

Using a part of your picture I drew in a line, which I fear is your center effect and will balance there.

[path_finder]

Dear ABHammer,
Many thanks for your comment.
You are half right: the COG is effectively located at the center of the violet circle (like indicated by the line in YOUR drawing).
But the real axis of rotation is still the center of the green circle, where the two yellow arms are crossing for their oscillations.
At least and not the least, during the rotation of the main wheel (green and yellow) the path of the violet circle center is itself a circle around this same axis. Due to the proper rotation speed of the violet circle two times greater than the previous one, we have a perfect hypocycloid with a ration of 2/1, like shown in this old thread, here:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?id=6371
The analysis of this complex assembly must be made dynamically.
So we have three important points to be considered during the rotation:
- the center of the wheel
- the COG (center of the violet circle)
- the quadruple point of the frame (E)
You can observe the position of the COG travelling with a sinusoidal motion on an horizontal segment, but ever at the same side of the main axis.

[KAS]

Path-finder,

The principle of using a second wheel as a driver has been tried before.

Attached is a design of mine that worked perfectly on WM2D but alas, failed in reality (at great cost!).

The only difference between yours and this one is the influence area affecting the weights; the principle is the same.

I suspended the drive wheel from the axle rather that attach it to an external pivot as in your design.

I hope you have better luck than I did.

Kas

[path_finder]

Dear KAS,
Many thanks for sharing your data. Nice work.
I see several differences between your design and my above concept:
- What is the reduction ratio between your small and big wheel (on the drawing it seems to be 1/1 inverted)
- the pivots of the arms (close from the weights) are fixed on the big wheel, interfering with the optimization of the COG.
On my design some pivots are floating, so far isolating the small and big wheel.
- apparently you are using a counterweight. This part IMHO is the reason why this is a not working wheel (ever balanced).
The key is to obtain an always unbalanced assembly, combined with an additional mechanism reversing the gravity motion.
In my concept this counter-reaction is done not by a counterweight but by the hypocycloid.
This part, with a particular size (ratio 1/2) and a particular rotation speed (twice the main wheel) is able to give me the famous stable position whatever the rotation of the main wheel.
- I can't see any reciprocator in your wheel. How do you obtain a circular motion?
But only the building will tell me if this is correct.

[KAS]

Path-finder,

The drive wheel is not reduced but is geared at 1:1 with the main wheel with a chain and sprockets.

You are right in the that the main arms are pivoted to the large wheel but the drive wheel pivots are flexible (the opposite of your deign).
During my research into this principle, I found that if the 2 wheels remained solid, huge back torque influenced the main wheel. Subsequently, I mounted the drive wheel on a pendulum bob (pivoted seperate from the main wheel) which alleviated the problem.

There was never enough offset mass to overbalance however, and I gave up at that point.

Who knows, 8 or 12 arms may overcome this.

Kas