Bessler's 2 Wheels

[not_me]

It is possible the reason no ne has figured out Bessler's clues is because they are foir 2 different wheels.
To let all of you know, I am banned from this forum. I believe this is because I support Bessler. You see, a certain private build group posts in another forum that they do not do Bessler builds because they expect to be compensated for their efforts. The posts can be shown if anyone wants proof.
The attached pics show 2 different wheels that together can account for Bessler's clues.
As it turns out, one is based on Mt 24 and the other on Mt 25. One idea is by soemoen who posted ass markh, the otherr I figured out by discussing various ideas with different people.



edited to add; with the scissors, by using multiple scissors, an over balance can be achieved. With only one scissor, when one weight replaces another, the balance would remain the same.
With what I call the water wheel, water is pumped from one section upward to another maintaining static head. This would allow the weights to stay in a somewhat balanced position allowing for the water to be the over balance.
It would have been possible for bessler to have made an inner tube out of leather. In his time, canteens were made from leather.

[justsomeone]

Thanks for posting not-me.

Hey, what do you think about Alan?

[FunWithGravity2]

not who ?

[rlortie]

To let all of you know, I am banned from this forum. I believe this is because I support Bessler. You see, a certain private build group posts in another forum that they do not do Bessler builds because they expect to be compensated for their efforts. The posts can be shown if anyone wants proof.

Hello, not_me or is it really Bessler_Supporter? Do you have any other pseudonyms?

Please explain why you are banned from this forum, I do not believe it is for supporting Bessler.

What other forum does Bessler wheel designs only if compensated for? Please post proof or at least the address for the forum.

I do not build facsimiles of Bessler designs as drawn, I know they will not work. Your above sketches only reinforce this point.

Therefore If I am asked to build something that is of no value except to the individual who wants it for a sculpture or trivia mobile , compensation would be expected.

Ralph

[greendoor]

Water behaves just like any other mass - if it falls, it must be lifted up again. Why do you think this helps in any way?

If you are a sock puppet for a previously banned poster, it isn't very smart for admitting this. Scott will just ban you again - he did this to me when I temporarily used an alias while I was getting cyber-attacked when I logged in as myself.

I think anyone in their right mind would refuse to build these designs of yours for free, when there is no reason to believe they could work. Or maybe we have missed something?

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi, not_ me,

Use a balanced lever system to transfer fluid weight or buoyancy If I had thought of it I would have most likely sold my house to pay for the R&D!!!! but that was back in 2003!!!

Just a minute why don't we use the balanced lever system to move fluid to drive a hydraulic motor to drive the wheel! don't want to put your hands in your pocket you p taking twit!! sorry about my spelling it might be A! no it cannot be an A I like them!

Regards Trevor

Edit, put my hand in my pocket! Not ME!!!!

[daxwc]

Thats it, you give em the old "what for" Whatford!

madder then a hatter thread

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Greendoor,

The fluid weight format shown here would be Impossible! The concept it self is possible as I know the forces required! I also know that by rotating balance multi levers you can multiply the forces to a win scenario using numbers and ratios, this is not known in general thus my web site! What you may have over looked is that with fluid weight shifts you can transfer the fluid off the ascending to the descending side wherein you would have true weight Falling not counterbalance weight! This is what happen with the balance lever to a small degree when they are rotated in a counterbalance the levers are set up for a fall, but when the levers fall it is true weight falling! Combined the two to a hydraulic system with modern control system and the concept is more than possible! Why bother adding extra work though when you can drive hydraulic motor directly from all that leverage.

Whether or not it can be made cost effective is some thing else!

Thank Daxwc, I hope its not the Queen undercover becuase I may have just blown my Knighthood!

Regards Trevor

[path_finder]

Dear Trevor Lyn Whatford,
May be the multi-lever principle is used by Mr Bob KOSTOFF in his 'Gravity Machine' where apparently an exchange of hydraulic fluid is the key of his engine:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory: ... ty_Machine

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Path_finder,

I have seen it before! but this time I have looked closer, there is not a lot of true weight falling with this one, I had a ruler to hand and a pencil fulcrum and some lose change it looks that there is only just over a foot of weight shift, so I roughly scaled it and the paired weights out of balance if removed could be replaced by one weight sitting about 6 inches of its centre resting place, to see it move I would have expected a lot more because its not light I do not no the timing of the weight shift but to see it move it start to move to fast and to quick for a pendulum effect or flywheel effect, especially if it is driving a pump our compressor as well! in short it does not calculate given the small leverage ratio to make the fluid that is needed for a direct double true weight lift! I am struggling with very large 22.5 leverage ratios gained from both sides of the wheel to drive a counterbalance lift. My thoughts on this is that it does not add up.

I could guess what is happening here, I think a flow valve is part of the breaking system so stop it!



Regards Trevor

Edit, I think it is a short video as the external drive system can not keep up with it, if Bob is not happy with what I have Writen prove me wrong close the loop!!

[alexjrgreen]

There doesn't seem to be much connection between the drawings at the top of this thread and MT24 and MT25...

That said, the first drawing makes an interesting simulation.

[not_me]

To let all of you know, I am banned from this forum. I believe this is because I support Bessler. You see, a certain private build group posts in another forum that they do not do Bessler builds because they expect to be compensated for their efforts. The posts can be shown if anyone wants proof.

Hello, not_me or is it really Bessler_Supporter? Do you have any other pseudonyms?

Please explain why you are banned from this forum, I do not believe it is for supporting Bessler.

What other forum does Bessler wheel designs only if compensated for? Please post proof or at least the address for the forum.

I do not build facsimiles of Bessler designs as drawn, I know they will not work. Your above sketches only reinforce this point.

Therefore If I am asked to build something that is of no value except to the individual who wants it for a sculpture or trivia mobile , compensation would be expected.

Ralph

I would say I got tired of your harassment. Simply put, you dislike having someone posting in here that understands engineering better than you.

[not_me]

Water behaves just like any other mass - if it falls, it must be lifted up again. Why do you think this helps in any way?

If you are a sock puppet for a previously banned poster, it isn't very smart for admitting this. Scott will just ban you again - he did this to me when I temporarily used an alias while I was getting cyber-attacked when I logged in as myself.

I think anyone in their right mind would refuse to build these designs of yours for free, when there is no reason to believe they could work. Or maybe we have missed something?

Hi All,
True, Scott might ban me again, but at least I am being honest.
Greendoor brought up the point that is most important in this design, the behavior of water.
It behaves differently than a solid weight, it can be displaced. And it is possible to test this hypothesis. I do not have a shop to work with, but given 3 or 4 weeks, I could build a test to demonstrate this.
The primary reason a purely mechanical arrangement of weights is considered not possible is if a weight drops one foot, it can only create that much force, f = m*d.
With the displacement of water, more may be possible. But in a working wheel, only an equal amount which is not considered possible is necessary. That would allow the static head to maintain it's position.
The easiest way to test the potential of displacement would be to have water in a tube and have a lever with a weight dropping, causing the water to be pumped.
And what would allow this test to be interesting is to have the water weigh more than the weight. In engineering as in science, the cold hard facts can be tested. And in this, opinion doesn't matter.
And since a wheel would rotate, the weight on the lever would only need to rotate 45 degrees. In an 8 weighted wheel, this could be timed to the wheel rotating 45 degrees allowing the weight to maintain it's same relationship with the force of gravity.
To summarize, by having a partial wheel that can roll with 2 sections (to show continuous action), have 2 levers with a 1 pound weight pumping 1 1/2 pounds of water.

[not_me]

@All,
For the 2nd possibilty, there is a trick to this scissoring action.
When the light weight on the lever rotates lifting and replacing the heavier weight (when moving past bootm center), the force along that line from center does not change, if using one section of scissor.
By using multiple sections of scissor, it would be possible to create an imbalance. The basic science behind this is the first section of scissor determines the leverage ratio of the weights.
The extra sections of scissors that would allow for over balance would deterrmine how quickly the heavier weight is lifted. The ratio would be the same as the first section and that would mean no more energy is required except to account for the increased resistence from the pivot points of the scissors.

[not_me]

@All,
I thought I would make clear on the water wheel.
One 1 pound weight would pump 1 1/2 pounds of water to another section using a 1 pound weight which then would pump the water out of the test set up as it is rotated.
This would show the pumping action works and then the weight of the water could be varified as weighing more than one of the weights.
This would help to demonstarte that it si legitimate.