Bessler didn't have magnets, did he?

[GravitoPhoton]

http://hometown.aol.com/DMBoss1021/MG/Page778.html

[Georg Künstler]

I don't know if Bessler used magnets, but MT63 looks like he used some.

[Jonathan]

Somewhere on the board there is a list of the inventory after his death, and he did have (I think two) lodestones. I don't think they were used in his wheel, they were just something the every scientist of the day had, I don't think they were very strong though.
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39
Your Mark II I have seen before, and dismissed as not working, because the distribution of the weights changes, but where they apply there weight doesn't. Every so often I see an idea and get confused about this, so I will do some experiments today and make up my mind.
http://www.ormus.ws/~pyramid/perpetualmotion.html
I came up with the Mark I device also, and made a very similar, but crappier, attempt. I have come to the conclusion that if it is to work at all one must have the stator magnets be just two continuous, semicircular magnets, so that the arms don't get stuck pointing at one and don't want to cross to the next magnet in line.

[Jonathan]

Well, I've done an experiment re: MarkII and have come to the conclusion that I have a hard time visualizing the extertion of forces through joints. I see now that the concept of having the weights swing toward the axle makes them exert their weight at their joint, where as the ones that are straight out are literally like thin extensions of the wheel, since their joint doesn't bend in the plane of rotation.
I think I know why Mark II doesn't work, it is because of two things: the first is that turning that angle (45 degrees in this case) as it follows the stator's form requires a change in the direction of the velocity vector. The other is that it takes work to move that weight closer to the axle against the centrifugal force.
Now it seems like the magnets would fix both of these, freely forcing the weights about, but I can't be sure of that. Another possibility is that of magnetic drag as they move relative to the steel. This may be a stronger effect than one'd think, if you drop a strong magnet down a copper tube that is just a little bigger, it can take a long time for it to fall (it has to be nonferrous, or the magnet will just stick inside and never come out).
I've got to say that I think that given the discriptions of the Bessler wheels and the limited strength of magnets back then, I don't think Bessler did anything like any of this, and I prefer to try and replicate the way he might have done it. However, if he did achieve it, then there must be other ways, and undoubtably these other ways could include a form that uses magnetism. This I find hopeful because one can make magnets much stronger than gravity.
I've just got to add that I've just thoroughly looked at everything at your site, and I'm very impressed with your models. When I make a prototype, it is out of Legos, K'nex, cardboard, and tape. I know, I'm cheap.

[Mikhail]

With my opinion Bessler used the springs, and not the magnets.

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Mikhail,
you are right, I also think Bessler used springs. But he buildt and constructed a lot of machines as you can see in MT. MT63 is a design, which can use magnets.

The final developement of Bessler used springs for the one-directional wheel. For the bi-directional wheel, no springs are used any more. This is my opinion.

[Mikhail]

Hello Georg,
Me also, I used the springs for my first wheel (1993), May after I gave up the springs and I made several wheel without springs. One will be published in 8 months will envy. After my calculations, it must function very well and must be very effective.

Best regards

Mikhail.

[grim]

Springs can be the basis for toggle mechanisms.

[Jonathan]

That's how I see it, if there is a spring is not used in a rachet type mechanism, I try to avoid the device all together.