biggest and smallest

[rounder]

dint bessler say some thing about the smallest wheel he could make would have to be 3 feet and that there would be a limit to how big he could make a wheel.

[John Collins]

Hi Rounder, I don't think Bessler ever discussed the smallest wheel he could make and also he never limited how big a wheel might be. Somewhere in the books I've published he discusses making very large wheels, far bigger than the twelve foot Kassel wheel.

[Fletcher]

I think I remember in John's book, which I read many years ago, a description of Besslers first wheel he successfully built in 1712 ?! being about 3 foot in diameter which he kept in his workshop & was possibly used to power a grindstone for sharpening knives & tools etc.

It would seem to be a practical size for a prototype given that you were developing an as yet unrefined idea & it allowed you to get your hands inside etc.

Perhaps John can clarify - didn't JB have have a small wooden model of his wheel ? I assume it was not functional ? What would have been its purpose ?

-fletcher

[graham]

Seeing that we are talking about the sizes of Besslers wheels , don't you think that a clue lies in the fact that his smallest wheel ran at a speed of about 60 rpm and his largest at Kassel ran at about 26 rpm.

I've thought about this quite a bit over the years and have wondered whether CF was a limiting factor determining the top speed of his machines. A larger wheel would have greater CF at it's rim than a smaller diameter one and hence could only run at a lower speed than the smaller wheel.

I know there are other possibilities for this speed difference such as the mass of his weights having to move greater distances in a larger wheel to create the same effect as in a smaller one.

Graham

[Jonathan]

Fletcher, I just asked John about that, he was mistaken in the book:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... =7333#7333

[John Collins]

Yes Jonathan is right. If you check www.orffyre.com, Bill has accurate accounts of all wheel sizes.

A small wheel was mentioned by a M.Crousaz, a sceptic, who described it rather derogatively as PM machine but which wasn't portable! Also a small wheel was mentioned as being in Bessler's possessions after his death, but it was disassembled. Lastly it was implied in various texts that other wheels of varying sizes existed, but we have no descriptions of them.

Graham's point about differing speeds is interesting but I think that you can't make any assumptions from those size/speed variables because Bessler himself said that by altering weights and arrangements he could alter the speeds as required.

[graham]

John quoted the following

Bessler himself said that by altering weights and arrangements he could alter the speeds as required.

This statement could still imply that CF was a limiting factor in determining his wheels free running speed.
A lighter weight could be affected more by the effects of CF, and a wheel employing them would possibly have a lower speed than one using heavier weights.

Here he also says "their arrangements" . This may refer to the diameter of their orbit. Larger orbit , greater CF resulting in lower free running speed.

These are just my thoughts on this question it's ok to disagree.

Graham

[scott]

Also a small wheel was mentioned as being in Bessler's possessions after his death, but it was disassembled.

This part has always astounded me. If a small disassembled wheel was found in Bessler's estate after his death, why on earth don't we have more information about it? What were the disassembled pieces like???
-Scott

[VANDUGEGS]

It is my belief, that the speed of BesslerÂ’s wheel was due to the workings of the wheel itself, the shifting weights and the large, clock like workings, which I believe he purposely incorporated into his wheel, with the intent and foresight of keeping the rpm at the slow and necessary 26 or 60 rpm, that was previously mentioned.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
Darrell

[ovyyus]

I think Bessler's first two wheels are a good argument against CF playing a primary roll in the principle of operation.

The first two wheels, Gera and Draschwitz, were self starting (always overbalanced) and apparently could be made to rotate at any speed - from very slow up to their maximum RPM.

Adjusting the speed governing axle bolt on the Gera wheel so that it rotated at just 1 RPM, or even 1 RPH, would seem to discount the CF hypothesis.

[jim_mich]

the speed governing axle bolt

Did I miss something? Was there a way of adjusting the speed on these two wheels?

[coylo]

Graham

This statement could still imply that CF was a limiting factor in determining his wheels free running speed.

Ovyyus

I think Bessler's first two wheels are a good argument against CF playing a primary roll in the principle of operation.

It always felt to me like Bessler's wheels did not operate by a CF method, (like some concepts on PM sites) but that CF would be its enemy to achieving greater RPMs than those recorded.
When centrifuge begins to interfere with the weight positions, maybe the wheel reaches its maximum RPM.

I see you found the old Caps Lock key there Darrell!

[John Collins]

Did I miss something? Was there a way of adjusting the speed on these two wheels?

Yes Jim_Mich, the speed of the first two wheels could be slowed down or allowed to run at full speed by screwing a bolt in or out. Bessler describes how spectators were allowed to do this and enjoyed trying it. It just had a braking action I guess.

[coylo]

Yes Jim_Mich, the speed of the first two wheels could be slowed down or allowed to run at full speed by screwing a bolt in or out.

OK, thats really showin' off now!
I can't even get a wheel workin' never mind putting a speed bolt in it.

[graham]

the speed of the first two wheels could be slowed down or allowed to run at full speed by screwing a bolt in or out. Bessler describes how spectators were allowed to do this and enjoyed trying it. It just had a braking action I guess.

Hi there John, I don't remember reading about this before . Could you let us know the source of this information

And John , have a very happy Christmas And a super New Year.

Graham