mathematics

[sadiq attamish]

hi AB hammer
during bessler time,he did not shock the world of science,also newton was there,so what happen.only our pioneer bessler was suffering.

[AB Hammer]

sadiq attamish

That is where you are wrong. Science was shocked but they were cheap to. They did not want to pay to find the secret. So they tried to force Bessler in other way to free source his hard work. Think if Bessler did show how it worked, There would be several wheels all over the place and every rich man would claim it to be theirs. Bessler's time had plenty of credit thieves and cheapskates.

[Ealadha]

hi AB hammer
during bessler time,he did not shock the world of science,also newton was there,so what happen.only our pioneer bessler was suffering.

What happened probably was they wanted to sell coal for their steam engines , so they did'nt want besslers wheel , just like today they want to sell their oil and so don't want free energy .

[Grimer]

hi AB hammer
not simply like that,there is CF force,inertia,torque,natural force to make tow-graviton(extra energy) as well as the very important is the gravity.thanks

Quite right.

It has to be the interaction between Newtonian Gravity action and Ersatz Gravity action (centri-fugal/petal action).

Both are equally important.

[jim_mich]

It has to be the interaction between Newtonian Gravity action and Ersatz Gravity action (centri-fugal/petal action).

Both are equally important.

There is no reason to believe that both are equally important. I am of the opinion that a Bessler wheel will work without any Newtonian Gravity. I strongly believe the last two bi-directional wheels were powered totally by Ersatz Gravity. The reason is that Newtonian Gravity is conservative and as such cannot be used as a power sourece. The last two wheels were balanced when stationary and there is no reason to think that they became unbalanced Newtonian Gravity wise when rotating.

Obviously the wheels became unbalanced force-wise when rotating else they would not have sped up as they did. I strongly think that the unbalancing only involved Ersatz Gravity. Ersatz gravity can be varied, while Newtonian Gravity is always constant. All motive engines require some force that can be varied so that it is stronger during the power part of the cycle and weaker during the reset part of the cycle.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Jim_Mich,

I hope I can change your mind with some videos I will be posting next week.

Gravity needs to be a conservative force to use it, it is more or less a constant force as well, CF is a generated force that needs generating, but maybe gravity does as well, a bit like rotating a coil in a conservative magnetic force.

My bet is on gravity, not Newton's gravity real gravity.

Only a week to wait Jim, so load up both barrels and let me have it if I am wrong, as I pre-load gravity I would deserve nothing less!

Regards Trevor

[sadiq attamish]

hi
i thing the most important implementation in the wheel was the gravity.

bessler's design must have been asymmetrical in operation,if not in design,& there must have been at least one other force,beside gravity,involved in making the system work

[sadiq attamish]

hi
if newton supported bessler claim that time,yes we can say (newton gravity),but newton ignored bessler,so we can say gravity only.

sherlock holmes said

when all of impossibles & improbables are removed,what left must be truth.

[Grimer]

It's good to see all different shades of opinion expressed without fear or favour.

Gravity is not conservative when internal parts of a body are in a hierarchy of relative motions. Think of the way a cat can twist around in the air and land on its feet. Conservative gravity assumes the cat is frozen solid.

[raj]

My apology for barging on this topic.

I am a simple man, with simple mind. I use simple logics and simple words to express my ideas/concepts.

I have been away from this forum for some time, but I have been reading all posts almost daily.

I am back today for a moment, just to say that I AGREE 100% with Sadiq Attamish in his insistance that : there must be at least one other force, besides gravity, in making the system (perpertual motion machine) work.

In my simple mind, I cannot think of making a wheel rotate with just a vertical downward force, like gravity.

I think that there must be a constant combination of, at least, a vertical force and a horizontal force, acting as one tangentional force on the wheel to make it rotate.

This is what I had proposed in my last post under ' Can you imagine???'

Unfortunately, instead of analysing my concept, members of this forum in no uncertain words, told me that I was in the wrong forum, because my concept involves using magnets with gravity.

I have learnt that the first concept of a Pmm wheel originated in India, i.e the Baskara wheel, using mercury.

Moreover, no one has yet known for sure what Bessler did use in his wheels.

Finally, our present day quest should not be concentrated on replication of BESSLER WHEEL, which we still lack knowledge of, but on a genuine effort to find FREE ENERGY, Perpetual motion, in whatever form, to help Mankind.

My concept is now on ' www.OverUnity.com' , under the topic: Do you see what I see.
May the Lord bless us all in our tasks.

[path_finder]

Dear raj,

I have learnt that the first concept of a Pmm wheel originated in India, i.e the Baskara wheel, using mercury.

Why mercury? because it is one of the most dense material (after the uranium p.e.) but in addition with an exceptional quality: a liquid (moving easily).
The choice of a such as material confirms the use of the gravity (versus your assumption for an extra source of energy).

IMHO the gravity field alone is sufficient. As claimed since a long time, a single primemover is NOT sufficient, we need a combination of TWO primovers, perhaps with two different designs, but acting together without any other source of energy. The centrifugal force could be one of the extra force (using strickly the gravity field) but is not the single solution.

***edited:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?id=6685

Like you I'm specially interested in the lost technology. The gravity wheel is one of them. Regarding the Baskhara wheel I'm pretty sure there is a piece of truth inside. Unfortunately (like for the Homecourt wheel in the middle age) the oral transmission misses often an important detail. I cannot imagine that thousand of generations have transmitted this legend just because it was an hoax. The Arch of Noah is also based on real events: we know now that the level of the mediterranean see was 120 feet under the actual level (see the Cosquer caverns:http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/cosquer/) and the building of a big ship was not crazy for a salvation.

Recently I mentioned the stone wheels of the Hampi temple.
See here:http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?id=7399)
The cycloidal line on the rim is not a coincidence.
The last design (very promising) I'm testing at the moment, is very close from this geometry.

Another strange situation are the stone balls (some with a diameter of 2m) discovered in several countries (Costa-Rica, Bosnia,China, etc)
See here:http://www.philipcoppens.com/spheres.html
IMHO this could be in relation with the same design than the trilobed flowerbowl (if this device was filled with some balls).
In that case it would be interesting to discover the ancient power plants using these balls.
Unfortunately this is not in the head of our archeologists.


edited: here ***

[Ian G]

If you pass the big cigar to your mate on the other end of the see-saw and he passes it back etc.
You will have a see-saw that works!


that is, until you are both stoned and then fall off

[sadiq attamish]

hi

i found (design rules) by some body else
1-all designs that are symmetrical & rest their weights by action of gravity every 180 degrees cannot work.
2-all designs that move weights by gravity alone produce a centre of gravity profile that is centred below the axle of rotation,the net result is balance & zero net gain of force in either direction.
3-no design that moves weights by gravity alone can work,since all work done by falling weights can only move the centre of gravity directly down from the axis.
4-the ideal movement will move a weight &rest it to its original position,or nearly so, within 90 degrees of rotation or less.

[sadiq attamish]

hi

"the wheel knows" where the weights are

from my two posts may be useful for some body else.

[sadiq attamish]

hi

a well designed gravity wheel will work, a bad designed gravity will not work.