few ?s in regards to wheel design.

[rotater]

have a few ?s relating to a design.

is there any difference shifting a pair of weights with about 20cm movement, if these weights are closer to the axle or further out near the rim of the wheel.
Would there be an increase in torque if its closer to the rim, or does the opposite weight which would be 20cm in from the rim reduce the torque and make no difference compared to these weights being closer the axle ?

would a simple pulley cable system be more efficient than scissors to move a weight ?

The wheel i will be building is large (2M diameter), each lever would be a meter long with weight on one end, have purchased 50mm *25mm 3mm metal tubing for the levers.
would this be strong enough to hold say 50Kg to 100 KG of weight ?

Building this wheel to test if CF alone can shift weight.
will post pix when finished, probably 4 months away due to not having much time to work on it.

[jim_mich]

is there any difference shifting a pair of weights with about 20cm movement, if these weights are closer to the axle or further out near the rim of the wheel.
Would there be an increase in torque if its closer to the rim, or does the opposite weight which would be 20cm in from the rim reduce the torque and make no difference compared to these weights being closer the axle ?

It makes no difference as to wheel torque when two weights move in and out the same distance. But the distance from the wheel center does make a difference as to the overall wheel momentum and the CF produced by the weights.

Cable systems usually have problems with the cables stretching.

The strength of metal tubing depends partly on the wall thickness. Clamp one end of a sample piece of tubing and place increasing weight on the other end. Observe how much it bends and how much weight it takes before it buckles. It will bend the most and buckle where clamped. If the tubing is too weak, maybe strengthen by inserting a solid rod near the end where it might buckle, if such is possible with your design.

[rotater]

thanks jim, though im a little confused.
as an example would a 2M long arm in a horizontal position with an axle centered on this arm, having 10 kg on the right side 1m out from the axle, 10 kg on the left side 80 cm out from the axle have more torque than placing 10 kg on the right side, 30 cm out from the axle, as well as 10 kg on the left side 10 cm out from the axle.
hope there is no difference, as i would like to redesign this so that only one weight sits in the center, and slides out 20cm, thus there is no loss caused by a weight on the opposite side, probably be able to double this weight.

In regards to testing the strength of the tube, i wouldn't have anything strong enough to clamp it too.

A little stretch would be fine, was considering using pulleys and cable from a home gym.

[jim_mich]

No difference. Same torque.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Rotator,

all the lever systems I have build where in a good balance and did not take much effort to turn them, I discovered that when over 32 lever are in play and the leverage of the levers is taped (Edit, Tapped) then you have a balanced lever system with out of balance torque, more torque out than in! (Edit, When the lever system is rotated that is. I just tried to keep it short, sorry for that).

Regards Trevor

Edit, +n + the above Edits.

[rotater]

thanks for clearing that up jim.

Trevor,were you using scissors or pulleys on your lever system, or is there a more efficient system of connecting a lever to a weight with the same range of movement.

when using scissors does leverage reduce for each crossover of the scissor arms (storks bill) ? if this is true, compared to the pulley i can get the 20 cm movement directly, using scissors would need a few crossovers to get the same range, plus the extra friction.

[greendoor]

Rotator - I believe Trevor should apologise to you for crossing the line between self deception and outright fraud.

Trevor - you state (with 100% confidence) "I discovered that when over 32 lever are in play and the leverage of the levers is taped (sic) then you have a balanced lever system with out of balance torque, more torque out than in! ".

I assume you mean "tapped", and you haven't taped up your levers with duck tape or something ...

Please be truthful and admit that this is pure speculation on your part. You have NOT build a working model that demonstrates overunity.

Perhaps you are just claiming 'torque multiplication' only - but that is something that any gearbox does.

I assume from the context of your statement (and from the whole thrust of your claims on the internet in general) that you are promising free energy (aka overunity - whether you choose to use that word or not).

Please be aware that when you make bold statements without allowing room for error, you are actually deceiving people and practicing fraud.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Rotator,

there are some of my build on my web site, I have built lots and lots, pay no attention to Greendoor he does not no what he is talking about I learnt that very early on when he could not understand a ratchet.

I have only used scissor on V wheels, and I am still using pulleys no V wheels, I have some Videos I am trying to edit for you tube, I will post them here when I can.

Regards Trevor

Edit, Rotator take a look at the out of balance weight you hope to achieve with your weight shift and then look at one of your weight on a lever with a leverage ratio of 22.5 to 1 then times that by 32 then times that by 2 because in my lever design the levers fall in 180 degree cycles.
Edit, add S.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Greendoor,

You will retract that statement with a full Apology to me. If you do not, then please forward your correct Name and Address so I can take legal action.

I believe I can back my claims in a Court of Law, and also I believe that it would take someone a lot smarter than you to realize that.

I am a genuine free energy researcher who has discovered the Multi Lever Phenomenon, this is a real discovery not fiction.

Yours faithfully, Trevor Lyn Whatford

[jim_mich]

Hi Rotator,

all the lever systems I have build where in a good balance and did not take much effort to turn them, I discovered that when over 32 lever are in play and the leverage of the levers is taped (Edit, Tapped) then you have a balanced lever system with out of balance torque, more torque out than in! (Edit, When the lever system is rotated that is. I just tried to keep it short, sorry for that).

Regards Trevor

Rotator - I believe Trevor should apologise to you for crossing the line between self deception and outright fraud.

Trevor - you state (with 100% confidence) "I discovered that when over 32 lever are in play and the leverage of the levers is taped (sic) then you have a balanced lever system with out of balance torque, more torque out than in! ".

I assume you mean "tapped", and you haven't taped up your levers with duck tape or something ...

Please be truthful and admit that this is pure speculation on your part. You have NOT build a working model that demonstrates overunity.

Perhaps you are just claiming 'torque multiplication' only - but that is something that any gearbox does.

I assume from the context of your statement (and from the whole thrust of your claims on the internet in general) that you are promising free energy (aka overunity - whether you choose to use that word or not).

Please be aware that when you make bold statements without allowing room for error, you are actually deceiving people and practicing fraud.

Greendoor,

You will retract that statement with a full Apology to me. If you do not, then please forward your correct Name and Address so I can take legal action.

I believe I can back my claims in a Court of Law, and also I believe that it would take someone a lot smarter than you to realize that.

I am a genuine free energy researcher who has discovered the Multi Lever Phenomenon, this is a real discovery not fiction.

Yours faithfully, Trevor Lyn Whatford

Trevor, you would be laughed right out of court. And a simple counter suit claiming harassment would be easy to win. All proposed perpetual motion schemes and devices are considered to be impossible according to modern science. Your "Multi Lever Phenomenon" is pure fiction until you actually build a fully functional working machine that produces more output energy than is consumed by input and friction.

Without a said working machine you would loose in court and be subject to a counter suit. So I suggest you shut your trap and apologize for your intimidating attitude and fraudulent claims.

PS. My full name and postal address is available to anybody with enough intelligence to find it.

[rotater]

thanks trevor, had a quick look at your site.
i may skip pulleys and scissors and try to incorporate linkages into the design.
Still figuring out if i can skip sliding a weight for each arm lever and only use 1 weight that stays out on the overbalanced side by using linkages.

trevor,
your lever wheel looks to be a complete design,
i have a system that oscillates its arms purely from centrifugal force, the arms that oscillate have about 30cm of movement, this may be too much, but the wheel i will be building is designed to be adjustable in case i need to reduce this if the angle is too great.
The oscillating arms (levers) are always balanced in its full rotation, i prefer this in a system before deciding to to a build.
Did a basic test of this oscillation, the only thing i could not test is if this oscillation was powerful enough to move or slide a weight, i wont know the answer to this until i finish the build.
the above idea came to me accidentally when i was trying to design a wheel in which the axle was kept off center by using levered spokes or other systems which would keep the wheel permanently unbalanced,
this led to another design which was almost like a bike pedal crank which would pass weights across from one wheel disk to another similar to pedaling a bike.
As usual they balanced out.

P.S. All i was simply asking is what is the most efficient way to connect the movement of these lever arms to another system, that at the moment would slide a working weight which is close to the axle, X amount of cm

[Tarsier79]

Rotater

When weights are moved in line with the axis, 20cm movement closer or further away doesn't matter, providing have the equivalent on the other side.

When you move a weight on a lever, it moves in an arc. If you mount a weight near the axis, and move it 20cm in an arc, compared to the axis, the weight moves in a greater angle than when it is mounted at the perimeter of the wheel. Note this effect will only occur when only 1 weight is moved.


Jim,

Why would I want your address? Its not like you have a working wheel, and I own an oil company!


Cheers

Kaine

[triplock]

Jim_Mich, Greendoor and Trevor. Play nicely now ;-)


Chris

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Jim_Mich,

I do not think so Jim, there is no perpetual motion machine in my thinking it is just the conversion of gravity.

I am glad you see that I am being harassed, because that is how I see it.

I have experimental proof that show just how little energy is required to rotate these lever systems, the leverage ratios would be easily proved, the drive systems are known systems, pistons and friction losses can be calculated. but most importantly it is the balanced nature of the lever systems that is not realized by most people including your good self,

Thank you fore your legal advise but you are wrong on this one again and one day you will see this is true, I have put the work into this I have done the experiments, and I am doing the building, you only know what you want to know, and you do not want to know I am right, because that would mean you are wrong, I keep an open mind and do the experiments, as that is where the truth is not in someone’s assumption of the truth, again your above post is your opinion, again it is not shared by me, most of your assumptions are not experiment based just your assumption and mostly wrong, if they was experiment based then your findings would match mine.

Quite frankly Jim some times you can be an over opinionated bore, and this is one of those times.

Regards Trevor

[triplock]

You make me smile Trevor ;-)


Chris