few ?s in regards to wheel design.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Rotater,

in answer to your question, is Hydraulics and pneumatics is the best way and is easily controlled with modern control systems, but as you have guessed, there not cheap.

I have gone over to driven wheel a lot more now as this free's up gravity to be used as a secondary input and you know there going to run, then its just a question of how much.

I still believe a gravity wheel is possible and I am just about to start work on some, just hard to find the time though.

I have tried many linkage systems and most do strange things with the weight distribution of the wheel, I think it still comes down to trail and error.

Sorry about all trouble that seems to follow me.

Regards Trevor

[jim_mich]

more torque out than in!

Hi Jim_Mich,

I do not think so Jim, there is no perpetual motion machine in my thinking it is just the conversion of gravity.

I am glad you see that I am being harassed, because that is how I see it.

Trevor, let me put this to you in such plain words that even you will understand! You said, "more torque out than in!", which is the definition of perpetual motion. Then you say, "conversion of gravity", which is well known to be impossible on a continuous basis and which would also be perpetual motion if it were possible.

Next you state your glad that I (Jim_Mich) see your being harassed. I never said any such thing. You, sir, do not seem to understand plain English! It is YOU, Trevor Lyn Whatford, that are doing the harassing by threatening greendoor with a law suit!

You, Trevor, have really pissed me off now! Any claims to having a working gravity wheel without having an actually physical working wheel is fraud and deception. Threatening law suits when members state truthful facts is harassment.

[rotater]

trevor, i've given up in using gravity as the only source to unbalance a wheel,they always at best balance out.
still have many designs to test, cant wait to build this to test if the cf system will work.
if this fails the next wheel has an unusual axle, bearing roller design that keeps the axle off center, does not look anything like a normal bearing, i wont give this idea away, as its a very unique design.
Your right Hydraulics and pneumatics would be expensive, have already blown $600 just on steel alone.
Have another ? in regards to CV joints, had taken the tripod cup which inserts into the front wheel drive gearbox to use in a v wheel, now i am wondering are these better than using the other end of the CV joint, starting to think there may be a little side movement in the tripod cup section ?

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Rotater,

Try not to over spend unless you can afford it, steels not to bad as you can use it on most of your builds, I use a lot of bike wheels and gears from the local tip. Its late here and I have to be up early, so I will get back to you tomorrow.

Jim_ mich, I will get back to you tomorrow as well.

Regards Trevor

[AB Hammer]

rotater

$600.00? If you get your steel from a distributor you can get a lot of steel for that price. But if it is stainless you are not even talking about a 2 sheet of 14 ga. 304 stainless. I tend to use wood and steel for my design. I also weld and forge my parts I need.

Alan

[greendoor]

Greendoor,

You will retract that statement with a full Apology to me. If you do not, then please forward your correct Name and Address so I can take legal action.

I believe I can back my claims in a Court of Law, and also I believe that it would take someone a lot smarter than you to realize that.

I am a genuine free energy researcher who has discovered the Multi Lever Phenomenon, this is a real discovery not fiction.

Yours faithfully, Trevor Lyn Whatford

Trevor - please re-read what I wrote, sentence by sentence. I do not retract this statement nor apologise for it, because it remains my personal belief.

Please take it in the spirit in which it was intended: a warning that you are crossing the line into fraudulent activity with your carelessly worded statements. You have also stooped to post insulting and derogatory remarks about myself - something which I have not done, and therefore I have more reason to take legal action against you than you have.

Those of us who are genuine free-energy researchers are considered crazy anyway - there is no need to attack each other. I admire your tenacity, but I seriously think you are deluded. I mean that in the nicest possible way.

Just try to be more careful about how you present your theories. It is fine to speculate and theorise - we are all doing that. But you cross the line when you make statements as facts, when the fact remains that you have NOT proved these statements - and probably never will.

I accept that you have coined the phrase "Multi Lever Phenomenon". If you google this phrase, anyone can find a PesWiki page about this, and the consensus of the readers of that page is that your idea is false - a non runner. Is this the fame that you wish to defend in court?

Just dial it back, and be more humble and careful about what you are claiming. That is my advice to you - otherwise more powerful people than me might have good reason to brand you as a fraudster.

[greendoor]

BTW - a wheel that consists of multiple levers that are free to move is NOT balanced as you insist. The force that you claim to have experienced is simply the amount of mass that is out-of-balance shifting under the force of gravity. There is no new "phenomenon" here. You are simply rotating an out-of-balance wheel, which requires the lifting of mass against the force of gravity. Then, when the lever reaches the top, it is free to fall a small distance, releasing the stored up energy.

Sad to say, but your Multi Lever Phenomenon is merely a Flywheel-with-added-Friction. The more levers, the more friction.

[greendoor]

An interesting read ...

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/pro-types/pro-pat ... o34508.pdf

[rotater]

AB,
not sure what you would pay for the same amount of steel in the US, here in OZ i think its a rip off, one joint quoted me almost double the price for the same piece of steel tube only a few days later.
To give an example here in OZ i had quotes for 6.5 M 25mm*25mm *3mm rhs ranging from $34 to $57.
8M 50mm*25mm*3mm ranged from $67 to $87, what was even funnier was that the $87 price was at discount and was normally about $105 + 10% GST.
the list below is steel i purchased for $204
1- 6.5M length of 25mm*25mm*3mm painted rhs
1- 8M length 50mm*25mm*3mm painted rhs
2.4 M 20mm bright steel shaft.
2 M 200mm * 8mm flat steel

thats it, believe it or not this price was with a 37% discount

I would like to use wood, except this build i hope will be able to carry a large amount of weight on its outer arms, will first start with light weights on the arms to slide a lighter weight near the center, if its a runner i'm hoping its strong enough to carry up to 100KG on each arm.


P.S. $130 of the total steel price so far included having some pieces laser cut, to me this was reasonable as i had 14 - 8mm steel pieces laser cut ranging from 160mm to 100mm diameter as well as 5 holes in each piece, plus 8 large stainless washers.

Trevor,
normally wouldnt spend much on a build, have not built many complete wheels, as i would not even think of a complete build unless having a true believe in the concept. do basic builds first to test an idea, if, and only if it looks promising do i continue with a build.
if this build fails all is not wasted, will still have a good frame and axle for future builds, have designed this frame and axle section to use either a straight axle or CV axle for a V wheel, or no axle passing in the centre, as the middle axle section can be unbolted. each bearing housing can be adjusted when switching from a V to a straight axle.
This complicates the build, but has its advantages, especially as a V wheel as its simple to adjust the angles of the left and right sides if testing different angles, as well as making it easier to line up each sides axles correctly.

[Tarsier79]

Gday rotater

I think crawling before you walk is probably the bigger point here. Besslers first wheel wasn't 10ft, and yours doesn't need to be either. It is often possible to test a principle without building a full wheel, and if you consider the build, there is often an easier equivalent way to do things.

Even so, I wish you the best of luck, and hope the cost of your build is worth it. If it doesn't work, at least it will be a lesson on cost efficiency.

Cheers

Kaine

[rotater]

tarsier
i would have preferred to build smaller.
the only reason i built it larger was due to the CV tripod cups, as they seem a little too large for a 1 meter wheel.
Much of the extra cost is due to trying to design a versatile frame and axle, this will not be wasted, as it will be used for my next build if it fails.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

more torque out than in!

Hi Jim_Mich,

I do not think so Jim, there is no perpetual motion machine in my thinking it is just the conversion of gravity.

I am glad you see that I am being harassed, because that is how I see it.

Trevor, let me put this to you in such plain words that even you will understand! You said, "more torque out than in!", which is the definition of perpetual motion. Then you say, "conversion of gravity", which is well known to be impossible on a continuous basis and which would also be perpetual motion if it were possible.

Next you state your glad that I (Jim_Mich) see your being harassed. I never said any such thing. You, sir, do not seem to understand plain English! It is YOU, Trevor Lyn Whatford, that are doing the harassing by threatening greendoor with a law suit!

You, Trevor, have really pissed me off now! Any claims to having a working gravity wheel without having an actually physical working wheel is fraud and deception. Threatening law suits when members state truthful facts is harassment.

When someone claims to have a working wheel design and then goes on and builds a working wheel then that is not fraud, I believe that a claim that energy can be made would be a fraud Jim, and a lack of physic understanding. Energy can be converted though. Regards Trevor

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Greendoor,

Please do not retract anything there will be no law suit as I will have more enjoyment reading it at a later date, it is Ironic that your pet project gets all of it energy from a falling weighted lever and all the work done there after comes from gravity acting on that falling weighted lever, the prime mover. I chose to use them to, but I can reset mine with counterbalance weight.

I am shore I will get my satisfaction seeing your ignorance in action, encase you did not know where your pet project gets its energy from it is stolen from the pendulum ( falling weighted lever, or a crude wheel variation of it ) and is used up quicker than the pendulum would have used it, but then given the reset time and energy used there is no energy gain in that project. its a pity you do not see that.

I just put thing simply as I do not need to BS.

Good Find Greendoor, now see if you can find the patent application, to cross check there findings, there millets tell a different story, see if you can find them, I wonder why they did not publish them as I paid them for it, and thats there job, so you would not get holes in the patent search system, perhaps they forgot what the patent office was set up for.


Regards Trevor

Edit, its a shame you cannot design anything worth building as you seem to have a obsession with me, I would like to make it clear that I am in a relationship with a women. I am flattered though.

Edit, spelling.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi Rotater,

I am sorry for all this off topic traffic and will try to move it to off topic.

Edit, Rotater, PM me your address and I will send you copys of my V wheels experiments, I have not got much Time to learn how to edit them and may take longer than I thought to get them on you tube.

Thankfully yours Trevor.