Red Herring clues
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justsomeone
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Red Herring clues
Please list any Red Herring clues you believe Bessler left to lead us in the wrong direction and explain why you believe they are Red Herring clues.
I've no reason to suppose that he left any red herring clues.
A red herring clue is a kind of lie and if he lied in that respect then the question arises, is the whole think a red herring, a fake in other words.
In a religious context your request would be tantamount to doubts about the faith.
FUD is not welcome in the House of Orffreus.
A red herring clue is a kind of lie and if he lied in that respect then the question arises, is the whole think a red herring, a fake in other words.
In a religious context your request would be tantamount to doubts about the faith.
FUD is not welcome in the House of Orffreus.
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justsomeone
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re: Red Herring clues
Grimer,
It would not be a lie if he was to :
1: intentionally leave out letters in drawings
2: over use the number 5 or 55
3: intentionally draw a wheel to turn ccw
4: hide pentagrams in pics.
etc. etc.
It would not be a lie if he was to :
1: intentionally leave out letters in drawings
2: over use the number 5 or 55
3: intentionally draw a wheel to turn ccw
4: hide pentagrams in pics.
etc. etc.
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justsomeone
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re: Red Herring clues
I can picture in my mind Bessler having a good laugh coming up with this type of " non " clues and watching his enemies of the time spending their time down the wrong path.
The concept of "Red Herring" statements by Bessler has been discussed on the forum before.
I do not think Bessler left any red herrings. I think he was as truthful as he could be without disclosing too many facts. Simply because some statement does not seem to agree with someone's preconceived concept does not make it a red herring statement. More than likely Bessler's statement is true and the person's concept is wrong.
I do not think Bessler left any red herrings. I think he was as truthful as he could be without disclosing too many facts. Simply because some statement does not seem to agree with someone's preconceived concept does not make it a red herring statement. More than likely Bessler's statement is true and the person's concept is wrong.
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justsomeone
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re: Red Herring clues
Thanks Jim. I'm sure it has been discussed. John just got me thinking. ;)
Justsomeone
I don't think there are any red herrings in Bessler's clues unless you want to include multiple meaning clues or incomplete clues. There are plenty of them. IMO
Alan
I don't think there are any red herrings in Bessler's clues unless you want to include multiple meaning clues or incomplete clues. There are plenty of them. IMO
Alan
Last edited by AB Hammer on Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bill_Mothershead
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re: Red Herring clues
3: intentionally draw a wheel to turn ccw
Pretend, in your mind, that you are standing near the side of
a Bessler wheel, watching it turn CW.
Now, in your mind, walk to the other side of the room and watch the
other side of the wheel. Which way do you see it turning? CW or CCW?
Now I admit that when I look at some of the MT drawings, it is
not real clear to me which way they are SUPPOSED to turn.
Maybe that is MY problem. Maybe it doesn't really matter since
none of them work anyway.
There is no clear "convention" or rule-of-thumb for diagrams
posted on this forum that assume the wheel is turning CW or CCW.
It sometimes helps if there is a arrow indicating direction, but
it is often not needed.
Confusing? Perhaps! But I don't know about misleading.
re: Red Herring clues
Hello my fellow sophisticates,
During my short time in this forum I have heard many discrepancies as to the translations of the original texts. I wonder how much info may have been lost or misinterpreted over the years. This may be part of the equation.
One thing that I have a hard time conceiving is how he can state that the weights constitute the movement, but later say that she spins without the use of weights, springs, or wind. I know that this has been discussed before, but it leads me to believe that there may be some misleading info layed out before us.
Was Bessler really as "bitter" as they proclaim? He seems quite civil from what I have read.
Your friend and colleague...nneba
During my short time in this forum I have heard many discrepancies as to the translations of the original texts. I wonder how much info may have been lost or misinterpreted over the years. This may be part of the equation.
One thing that I have a hard time conceiving is how he can state that the weights constitute the movement, but later say that she spins without the use of weights, springs, or wind. I know that this has been discussed before, but it leads me to believe that there may be some misleading info layed out before us.
Was Bessler really as "bitter" as they proclaim? He seems quite civil from what I have read.
Your friend and colleague...nneba
HeathenForce- http://www.ultragod.com/
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MrTim
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re: Red Herring clues
The trick is figuring out which 'clues' go to which wheel, instead of applying all to all....
"....the mechanism is so simple that even a wheel may be too small to contain it...."
"Sometimes the harder you look the better it hides." - Dilbert's garbageman
re: Red Herring clues
The weights in the "weights, springs, or wind" statement refers to weights that were manually lifted upward and then produced energy as they fell. It was common for such weights to power clocks and turnspits. The springs that he mentions refer to spring in such things as clocks that again were manually wound up and then powered the clocks or other devices.nneba wrote:One thing that I have a hard time conceiving is how he can state that the weights constitute the movement, but later say that she spins without the use of weights, springs, or wind. I know that this has been discussed before, but it leads me to believe that there may be some misleading info layed out before us.
Bessler says that his wheel was powered by moving weights and he admits to having springs in the wheel. But he denied that the springs powered the wheel or that the dropping of the weights powered his wheel. Bessler said that it was the motion or swinging (depending on the translation) of the weights that produced the force to drive his wheel.
re: Red Herring clues
Mr.Tim
Good point,
Do you guys believe that the wheels were operating on an entirely different system, or that the mechanism was simply tweaked?.
Personally, I feel that the inner configuration must be the same, with some simple modifications.
nneba
Good point,
Do you guys believe that the wheels were operating on an entirely different system, or that the mechanism was simply tweaked?.
Personally, I feel that the inner configuration must be the same, with some simple modifications.
nneba
HeathenForce- http://www.ultragod.com/
I think we should allow huge room for meanings to be lost in the translation. Stewart here does excellent work in deciphering the language difficulties - but anyone involved in translating very old languages knows that at times this is not an exact science.
Bessler was a god-fearing man who was trying to sell his invention to kings and emperors of the day. These men were to be feared - as the price of lying to them was his head on a plate.
I do not believe he lied. But I believe he took every precaution to hide his secret, while at the same time wanting to be able to teach people how it works. It must have been very frustrating for him. Yet he created some amazing documents that demonstrated how much he wanted to teach this stuff. I believe that is why he wanted all that money - to set up a college for teaching this new science. What a different place this world would be if someone had bought it. But I guess greed killed this - because why would anyone pay a huge fortune, only to have the secret fully revealed to all ...
Bessler was a god-fearing man who was trying to sell his invention to kings and emperors of the day. These men were to be feared - as the price of lying to them was his head on a plate.
I do not believe he lied. But I believe he took every precaution to hide his secret, while at the same time wanting to be able to teach people how it works. It must have been very frustrating for him. Yet he created some amazing documents that demonstrated how much he wanted to teach this stuff. I believe that is why he wanted all that money - to set up a college for teaching this new science. What a different place this world would be if someone had bought it. But I guess greed killed this - because why would anyone pay a huge fortune, only to have the secret fully revealed to all ...
re: Red Herring clues
Its no red herring, There have been posts suggesting that besslers statement bellow is only about the direction the wheel turns, CW or CCW.
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4254
"It turns to the right and to the left; it spins around in any possible direction, whether laden or empty".
I look at it as a device that moves to the left and right when viewed from the front,
as bessler has covered the rotation of the wheel using the statement "it spins around in any possible direction"
just a thought.
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4254
"It turns to the right and to the left; it spins around in any possible direction, whether laden or empty".
I look at it as a device that moves to the left and right when viewed from the front,
as bessler has covered the rotation of the wheel using the statement "it spins around in any possible direction"
just a thought.
I agree that Stewart here does excellent work in translating, but deciphering is slightly different than simply translating. Let me explain...
Take the very simple English language phrase, "It was a dark day." This might seem that it is a cloudy or stormy day. But maybe there is a solar eclipse? Or maybe a battle has just been lost and the outcome of a war is in doubt? In each situation the meaning is slightly different based on the context of the situation. Thus, unless one has a very clear understanding of the whole situation and all the facts surrounding a statement, a simple translation can be deciphered to mean any number of different thoughts.
If you have a wrong preconception of Bessler's wheel then you may be able to translate his statement word for word but you might fail to decipher his original real meaning.
This is why Stewart sometimes lists multiple words/phases so that one can see that there are different possible meanings. Only when Bessler's Principle is fully known and proven will his original words all fall into place and their full and subtle meanings be known.
Take the very simple English language phrase, "It was a dark day." This might seem that it is a cloudy or stormy day. But maybe there is a solar eclipse? Or maybe a battle has just been lost and the outcome of a war is in doubt? In each situation the meaning is slightly different based on the context of the situation. Thus, unless one has a very clear understanding of the whole situation and all the facts surrounding a statement, a simple translation can be deciphered to mean any number of different thoughts.
If you have a wrong preconception of Bessler's wheel then you may be able to translate his statement word for word but you might fail to decipher his original real meaning.
This is why Stewart sometimes lists multiple words/phases so that one can see that there are different possible meanings. Only when Bessler's Principle is fully known and proven will his original words all fall into place and their full and subtle meanings be known.