Mann Gravity Mover -- RESEARCH FINDINGS (by P.Stroud)

[nneba]

INCREDIBLE!

I may have missed it, but did it describe the nature of his death? MIB's?
Also, this article didnt mention the torque that the 5hp put out, I suppose that would relate to the size and weight of the ball, I assume that it was quite minimal.

And Pathfinder, I am impressed with your theory of the stone balls. That does indeed seem to fit, very cool.

worldmysteries.com

[path_finder]

Dear all,
Returned back home I can continue my experiments.
Hereafter is a shot of the wheel (can we speak about a wheel?) based on my drawing published here:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 9381#79381
and perhaps using the same principle than Mr Gurbakshs.
Basically it is a plate oscillating around the green axis like a seesaw, where a rolling weight is moving around the orthogonal central axis.
On the same axis is attached a pendulum. The oscillations (in a vertical plane, orthogonal to the seesaw axis) of the pendulum are transmitted to the plate, allowing the rotation of the rolling weight (if a good synchronization in the actuation, see that later).
In view to be able to modify the parameters some particular features have been added.
Per example the rod between the rolling weight and the seesaw axis has a sliding tube, where we can adapt an additional weight (modification of the torque, regulation of the speed, etc). In addition the yellow plate is in fact the bob of the pendulum. But with this design the position of the rolling weight at the top is transmitted to the bottom by the axle, so far the bob is rotating itself allowing some various mechanical combinations.
The first tests made actuating manually the end of the pendulum show that with a minor displacement we obtain rapidly a high speed (this is a problem, I don't know if the frame in that state will resist enough).

[path_finder]

In relation with my last post explaining my latest experiments I made a video showing the principle of operation.
This video is located at this adress: http://dl.free.fr/thPy5YqvJ
click on the link 'Télécharger ce fichier' (or right click and valid) depending of your browser.
Leave the user name empty.
The password is 'besslerwheel'
This is a *.mpeg file, with a size of 17,5Mo.


edited:
Dear pstroud,
the full web site of Mr Gurbakhsh is here (not down):
http://gurbakhshsinghmannglobalenergy.com/biz/index.htm

[path_finder]

for those having some difficulty with the download (the web site free.fr is often saturated) I join hereafter a small excerpt (due to the constraint in the size) wich is smaller (select the loop in your reader).

[mickegg]

Hi path_finder

Nicely done... but the platform that you are tilting in your model is actually a static track in the Mann Gravity Mover.

The patent details are quite clear about this.

It can be constructed at differing height from the machine base level.
It sets the angle of the main wheel arm.
The drive weights are located at the wheel end of this main arm.

Your version appears to be an entirely different machine altogether.

..It may be more successful for that very reason.

Regards

Mick

[path_finder]

Dear Mickegg,
My intend is NOT to replicate the Gurbakhsh design.
The next step for my design is to link the rotating bottom disk to the seesaw plate
by a mechanism like in the animation below, extracted from this interesting Web site:
http://www.concertartist.info/organhist ... orks12.htm
Many thanks to James H. Cook
Note that Bessler was a pipe organ builder.

edited:
The motion energy is coming from the centrifugal momentum of the rolling weight.
The energy of the pendulum is used for the counteracting mechanism.
There is an optimal frequency where the both are synchronized depending of the rotation speed (in fact from the usable torque).

[jimmyjj]

interesting motion

[pstroud]

Hi Path_Finder!

Yes, the website you provided is the original for Gurbakhsh Singh Mann's invention and where he discusses each that was built at the India dept of energy and how it performed. I posted details from his website here and on a PES wiki page to preserve them in case his website went down. (Especially now that he is dead).

The only additional info I was able to obtain was on his patent applications. Only the abstract was published and I paid someone in India to provide a copy of the original full application. Unfortunately, it only provides a little new info that is not on the website and does not go into details needed to replicate it.

I am actively running tests on a model in the shop to try and find the missing clues to the Mann Gravity Mover.

Path_Finder. Your design is interesting. You may be able to utilize the magnet setup that was in the other patent application to possibly keep it out of balance. It would be nice for someone to get a running model.

If I think of anything else that might help, I'll share it with you. Thanks for sharing your design and video with the group.

Preston

[path_finder]

Dear pstroud,
Many thanks for your comments.
As explained above I don't try to replicate the design of Mr Gurbakhsh.
There are some different features, one being the use of the oscillating/rotating pendulum


The first conclusions of my experiments:
1. The pendulum MUST be loaded. If the lower disk is free of any weight, the whole system don't rotate
2. The top roller must be loaded also but not too much. It seems a subtil ratio must be adjusted between the top weight and the bottom pendular weight.
3. The pendulum and the roller must be in quadrature.
4. when the plate is horizontal the roller must be on the axis, the pendulum must be at the maximum of its extension, allowing an efficient tilt of the plate.
5. I'm not definitively sure but the rotating bob (made by two weights) has an importance.
6. This is the second time where my linkage is broken very soon.

[path_finder]

Some major improvements have been implemented.
First the roller weight does not roll anymore on the plate.
By mistake the weight rotates better when linked at 45 grades to the axle and Below the plate, in the vacuum.
I cannot explain why, but it works with much more efficiency, the tilt motion of the plate being limited to few millimeters only.
It is not only the disapearance of a source of friction, but IMHO by the reduction of the gravity force vertical component because the 45 grade angle, allowing a better efficiency of the centrifugal force versus the vertical component.
Obviously on a theoretical point of view the best efficiency should be obtained with an angle of 90 grades minus epsilon, but the friction on the axle in this case could be sufficient for locking the rotation.
So far 45 grades seems to be a good compromise, and I kept this value.
2. With this new design we need a mechanism much more simpler for actuating the tilting of the plate.
As indicated in the drawing below I decided to use an 'angle conversion' mechanism based on one chain and two cogs of the same size.
The change of the direction (90 grades) is obtained by two rollers.
A crank (in red on the drawing) allows the tilting motion of the plate by a connection to the ground, and a 90 grades dephasing with the weight rotational position.
This design seems to be similar with the Stirling engine (in particular the two motions in quadrature) but with the gravity this time as source of energy.
See the first animation at the right side: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine

[path_finder]

Another mechanism for tilting the plate.
For a better view I enhanced the fishing nylon wire in green.

[nicbordeaux]

Dear Mickegg,
My intend is NOT to replicate the Gurbakhsh design.
The next step for my design is to link the rotating bottom disk to the seesaw plate
by a mechanism like in the animation below, extracted from this interesting Web site:
http://www.concertartist.info/organhist ... orks12.htm
Many thanks to James H. Cook
Note that Bessler was a pipe organ builder.

edited:
The motion energy is coming from the centrifugal momentum of the rolling weight.
The energy of the pendulum is used for the counteracting mechanism.
There is an optimal frequency where the both are synchronized depending of the rotation speed (in fact from the usable torque).

Linking the rotating plate to the seesaw... Yes, that's the way to go.

[path_finder]

Some enhancements have been implemented in the horizontal wheel.
The shot hereafter shows the modifications (the tilting mechanism is not yet installed)
The tests made until now (reverse angle actuator, pulleys/chain at 90 grades, etc) were not reliable enough.
The animation below show the new mechanism selected for the tilt motion actuation.
The grounded frame is the structure in blue. Note at the top the reference (horizontal rod) where the tilted plate will be attached.
The rotating disk has a pin acting like a crank, located at the middle of the active rod, which actuates the both end of the mobile rod, this rod being connected at each end to the plate AND to the reference horizon by four arms of equal length.
The sinusoidal alternate motion of the pin is transformed into a seesaw tilting motion.

This design is a reminder of the organ bellow technology:
http://www.usd.edu/smm/4897bellowsA.jpg

[path_finder]

Just as a curiosity: the vertical version of this horizontal wheel.
Note the motion of the red axles, which can be included inside a drum (for sure here the eccentricity has been oversized for the understanding).
At the rest position the wheel is standing with the both red axles horizontal.
Note also this can be viewed from top (another design).
Anything useful coming from this idea?

[path_finder]

In relation with.
NB: It's NOT me in the movie...