Bruder Klaus (Brother Klaus)

[DrWhat]

http://www.logoblog.org/mercedes-benz-logo.php

[rasselas]

Brother Klaus said, "the inner godhead radiates out through the trinity into the [circular circumfrence of the] world... this was in 1488. I'm not saying he actually thought the world was round, but rather that the nature of his vision was such as to interpret a circle as "circumscribing" existence. That is, the intuitive understanding was more correct than the [what was then] "factual", or reasoned, understanding. Bessler does talk about assimilating food inward, and all that radiates outward into the limbs... but personally, I don't see how such a wheel (shall we term it even as in SIX, or odd as in THREE) means so much of anything... other than odd or even itself.

[Ed]

DP

[Ed]

but personally, I don't see how such a wheel means so much of anything...

If this has any connection to the AP wheel, IMHO Bessler would have seen together the woodcuts of the Klaus wheel and the pilgrim's painting of the concept.


The Klaus wheel by itself has no context, that's only provided by the pilgrim's painting. Studying the woodcuts of it may shed light on what Bessler intended for the AP image, but there are multiple meanings for each of the six circles. Also the painting and the two woodcuts of it show the swords/spokes going into mouth, eye and ear. Stewart posted text from Wikipedia that says "into two eyes". I'm not sure where that face image comes from, but it's a discrepancy.

[rlortie]

show the swords/spokes going into mouth, eye and ear.

Speak no evil, see no evil, hear no evil? Note the depictions which the swords/spokes originate.

Just a thought, no ridicule required.

Ralph

[Ed]

I guess everyone will decide for themselves whether or not to ridicule you Ralph. :-)

In this case I agree, it could possibly mean that.

I could see Bessler using the AP wheel image at the end to tell Gärtner, Borlach, Wagner; "One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself" or "Speak of the Devil – and the devil appears".

It is very possible that the AP wheel image has nothing to do with a solution whatsoever. But on the other hand, I have some more things to post related to this when I get more time over the weekend.

[Fletcher]

I would be surprised if the AP drawing didn't have multiple meaning but mostly religious significance & connotations, & a visual symbology - I can't see Bessler resisting any opportunity for double entendre, to smile about later.

[Mark]

I would be surprised if the AP drawing didn't have multiple meaning

Yep, I agree.

[path_finder]

The Manx triskelion has the same pattern included at the center.
We can find the similar pattern in Sicily.
http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/files ... xtail1.png

[path_finder]

In relation with the wheel from this post here http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewt ... 0784#80784,
I can suggest another explanation for this symbol.
Look at the yellow and violet forces used in this mechanism: http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/download.php?id=8827

[Stewart]

When considering the AP wheel image, we shouldn't forget that there are two paragraphs of text on the same page. The first paragraph consists of three verses from Jacob 3 of the German Luther Bible:

Jacobi III. ℣. 14. 15. 16.
HAbt ihr aber bittern Neyd und Zanck
in euern Hertzen/ so rühmet euch nicht/
und lüget nicht wider die Wahrheit.
Denn das ist nicht die Weißheit/ die von
Oben herab kommt/ sondern irrdisch/ mensch-
lich und teuflisch.
Denn wo Neyd und Zanck ist/ da ist Un-
ordnung und eitel böse Ding.

and the English translation:

Jacob 3 ℣. 14, 15, 16.
Have you however bitter envy and quarrel
in your hearts, then boast not,
and lie not against the truth.
Because that is not wisdom, that comes
from on high, but earthly, human
and devilish.
Because where envy and quarrel is, there is
confusion and nothing but evil business.

That is followed by:
Matthew 15 ℣. 16.
Are you then also still without understanding

It's worth reading the whole of Matthew 15 to get the complete context of the verse 16, but here are a few of the verses that follow it:

16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

And following that Bible verse is:
if I reveal inside the art,
then the - -* may tame/master you.

*It makes sense that missing word here is 'Teufel', meaning 'devil'.

So having quoted various passages from the Bible about the evils of envy, lies and blasphemy, which is aimed at his enemies (and particularly Wagner of course), it appears that Bessler concludes by saying that those that have behaved that way towards him will become enslaved by the devil when he reveals his wheel to be genuine.

This is backed up by other things Bessler says to Wagner throughout AP. In part 2, chapter VIII(8) of AP Bessler makes a curse wager with Wagner:

I wish to call together here all the curses, all the fires of hell, all the damnation, torment, woe, and pain which one could ever conceive of. Let them all assemble here and stand between me and Wagner. Now, if Wagner is not a liar, and my device really is as he says ( with clockwork, weights, springs, etc.) then all the curses shall descend on me. But should Wagner be a liar. then they will all descend on him. Just note, Wagner, it is not I who lay this curse upon you.
Will you not do penance, and be fearful for your soul? If not, the curse will surely overtake you. So let this arrangement stand between us, in the name of God. Let God Himself, the Holiest, be the judge between the two of
us. Farewell then, Wagner, wretched slave - I know that I am free, consoled, and vindicated.

- Translation from John Collins' AP book

I've bolded areas that tie in with the idea of becoming enslaved by the devil if Bessler reveals his work.

At the end of that chapter there is an extra paragraph that is untranslated in my copy of John's book. In it Bessler tells Wagner to read the following Bible references:

Römer 2
Sirach 28
Matthew 5

They all relate to how one should behave towards others, and Bessler ends by saying that Wagner should make room for repentance or he'll remain a rotten tree.

Following the text is the wheel image. If it represents Bruder Klaus' "wheel" image (see the first post in this topic for the details) then its meaning fits with the text, as the larger artwork associated with the image depicts various acts of Christian kindness. It's a possibility that Bessler includes his wheel image on the page as a reference to his Christian faith and as a reminder of how Christians should behave towards their fellow man.

Stewart