Half empty, half full - MT 137 thru MT 138

[barksalot]

Thanks for the compliments.

I sure put a lot of hours in on that one, but it was fun and I was excited all the time building it which was not the case on previous builds because on them I could see before completing them they were dead ends.

Unfortunately the wheel does not exist any more. I disassembled it, burned the wood parts and took most of the steel in to be recycled. Because I fell ill and did not feel like I was ever going to work on it again. This was a little over a year ago when I fell ill.

The scissor mech on one of the variants, I think it was that last pic I posted, opened up so smoothly and silky at bottom dead center. It was neat to watch open up as it was rotated slowly. I liked to rock it back and forth and watch it open up over and over again then index it to the next one and do it again on that one watching to see if they behaved the same. But with a good push to rotate, it would start to have a more delayed, abrupt opening and make some noise.

Perhaps I will get back to tinkering again. Will have to wait and see.

Mike

[path_finder]

Dear barksalot,
Many thanks for sharing.
A green dot for that.

[barksalot]

Thank you path_finder

I found some camera shots of some construction notes that show how I graduated the sizes of the parts. They show the spaces between the holes on center of the scissor parts.

Also some pics of a longer scissor mech that was reduced in size because it took to long to open up when it reached the activation zone.

A pic of another variant also.

[barksalot]

I have been thinking about the half and half thing. When bessler said light and empty on one side and heavy and full on the other it made everyone think laterally and thus they naturally divided the circle in half at the diameter.

When thinking of it as the inside and outside, there is no clear dividing line as in the other case. It could have been 30,40,60,70% of the area at the outward side. Because he did not say it was half of the wheel area just this side and that.

Maybe I am wrong thinking he did not say half, if that is the case please let me know.

I still think though that 50% is a good place to start research at. So if someone has something that does not fit neatly into half of the area do not discard it because of that.

Some of you may wonder about some of my scissor mech variants and say he sure was not getting much over balance with those weight positions and this would be true. I had two lines of thought going on there. One was the classic over balance attempt and the other was to try and get the scissor mechs to initiate a push on the frame of the wheel when they opened up at the bottom.

On some I imagined the small red components of the mech to be the children that play with heavy clubs among the pillers (the longer white parts).

I also thought about having the smaller end of the mech being the attachment point to the wheel, maybe that would have more of an effect on things.

I think I was just scratching the surface of different things one could try.


Mike

[evg]

Hi, I'm not new to this forum, but signed in as new member as I forgot all my old details.
Half empty etc. to me could be related to a simple machine in the likes of a mechanical tire lever, the kind of on a stand where you put the foot near the rim and press down to split the tire from the rim.
This has both working parts on one side of the axle, currently working (building on) this idea.
Both the handle and foot would be of equal lengths.
Handle and weight would have the same weight attached, but would have different forces due to relationship to axle distance.
When handle is at 1-2 o'clock, foot starts to commence upwards
This may sound very confusing to some, but someone will get the picture.
Eddy

[evg]

Taking some confusion out of my above post. Handle will become foot on upward path and visa versa.
End of handle is not controlled by outer rim (downward path) but upward path (foot) is controlled by outer rim in the form of weight is actually a wheel. (only axle and arms move, not outer rim)
Maybe if you think of the handle as a shifter (pipe wrench) you may be closer to get the picture.
Don't know if this helps
Eddy

[evg]

this may make it clearer, now you have 80% of blueprint[/img]

[barksalot]

I will admit the evidence is weak for the half empty, half full text clue now that i have read that old thread about the translations. But there has to be a certain percentage of the wheel empty, if the statement about bessler letting some people feel inside his wheel about the axle is true.

Also I have considered the portrait of bessler standing by a table with different kinds of instruments on it to be showing a proportion of the wheel containing the workings, that being the dividers on the globe. Its looks to me to approximate about half of the area of the globe if you draw a circle at the inside point of them and outside point.

I think this will be my last post to this thread. I may start another one sometime with the focus of it being my scissor mech.

Mike

[Ed]

Hi Mike,

The portrait you are refering to has never been established to be Bessler. The only thing we can say for sure about it at this point is that it is a portrait of someone with the face cut out and overlaid so Bessler's face shows through. We don't even know for sure if it was included in every copy of DT.

[barksalot]

Hi Ed,

I do not really have any problems with that portrait, although some do.

If it was not included in all copies that is not unusual for that to happen in publications.

Bessler must have sanctioned it some how, after all it was his book.

Possible explanations for a pasted on face image, could be that bessler drew the portrait but was not good at drawing human facial features in portrait quality. So he substituted a likeness from his other portrait.

Or another artist drew the portrait, but bessler did not like the way the face looked so he substituted it.

It does not appear to be an attempt to deceive because its so obvious.

Mike

[nneba]

Ok,

Refering to Evg's diagram, which weight has more kinetic energy?
The one to the left(inner) or right(outer)

nneba=inner

[barksalot]

Got a new test stand set up.

Now to get the out rigger supports made, then I can start to make the scissor mechs and get back doing my experiments again. Only this time I am working in a smaller scale, 4 ft diameter wheel. Also I think I am just going to work with two mechs for a faster turn around time between variants, I will have the option to expand it to 4 or 8 if something looks like it needs more attention.

Now if I can just find a better paint color for the hub, the can said it was canyon red, looks pink to me.

I will keep posting here in this thread for now.

Mike

[path_finder]

Dear barksalot,
IMHO the purpose of the portrait is just another simple clue: how to pass a mass through an hole of the medium plane of the wheel.
To do that the author of this clue took any portrait at his disposal, cutted an hole and included his face (a kind of sarcastic humor also)..
It's a new avatar of the 'escamotage' concept.
This is one of the reason do not loose too much time into some hypothetical analysis about this portrait. (just my opinion).

[bluesgtr44]

Bluesgtr44

Bessler was a sly one when it came to words. It could also be inside or outside part of the wheel if that is the correct words he used.

Here are some pics of my build.

I was of the same thinking with the storks bill applications. They could shift in towards the axle on the ascending side and outwards on the descending which would fit that description. But, yet again......we need the device that will accomplish that feat.

Very nice work! I think about a 4-5 ft. test wheel would be about right! I've mentioned here before about forcing the designs even though they keel. What you get from this is the understanding of the particular arrangement and how it would react if it really started to accelerate. I think this is an important factor in all of this as well and will be a part of solving this puzzle. If the basic arrangement that a person is looking at can't hold together while accelerating, then chances are that type of arrangement isn't going to be the one.


Steve

[barksalot]

path_finder

There could be something to what you said about moving a mass through a hole being depicted there. I have thought something like that was being hinted at with the finger pointing between the spectacle lenses.


bluesgtr44,

Yes finding that device that will accomplish the goal of a self moving wheel is what we need and I think I have found some virgin ground to explore, with this scissor mech derived from the hammer men toys. So I have shown it to all for possible exploration.

I know some people have a dislike for scissor mechs because they are hard to work with, but with a little diligence and patience you can make them perform reliably and withstand the rigors of wheel operations at least for a long enough time to prove it. Of course everything wears out so it depends on how much effort you are willing to put in.


Mike

edit-diligence for vigilance :)