Words of encouragement

[rickydog]

The fall of a weight produces motion.

How can it fall without gravity? Without gravity, there is no up or down.

Anyway, Merry Christmas to all.

[jim_mich]

Ricky, you failed to follow my logic to its conclusion.

The fall of a weight produces motion. If motion of weights can produce extra force to lift the weight back higher, then gravity is not an essential ingredient, for the extra force could just as easily be used directly to produce rotation rather than to lift weights.

The only thing that gravity can do is start the weight moving. If the motion can produce extra force or energy so as to lift the weights back up, then logically the falling motion produced by gravity is not needed. Only the motion is needed, and thus gravity is not an essential ingredient.

[path_finder]

Dear Jim_Mich,
Perfectly expressed!
So many time we forget the most pertinent members of this forum.
I should have made that since a long time before: a green dot.
I take the opportunity for addressing to you many thanks, for your constant pertinent comments.

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi all,

No back to basics to see what we all missed then, lets just keep closed minds and wait another year then another year, and so on! we all have our own Ideas of what we think is the secret that we may be blind to the truth! do not jump to the next stage until all option of the first stage have been explored.

Regards Trevor

[graham]

Hi Trevor,you suggest:

do not jump to the next stage until all option of the first stage have been explored.

.

How will we know when all gravity options have been explored??

So far it's been about 300 yrs with no replication of what might be a Bessler wheel. For all I know, we might after the course of these centuries be at that point where all options have indeed been explored already and quiet frankly I believe we could well be.

I am well aware that to suggest anything other than gravity be explored is considered heresy by most in this group so I rarely post much anymore.

Graham

[FunWithGravity2]

Graham

IMHO

Theories become propositions when someone thinks they could be possible.

Propositions become laws when enough experiments have been conducted that don't cotradict them.

Unfortunately ALL possible variations can almost never be considered before this happens, When the NEW calculus was introduced so many were excited and eager to declare LAWS that i believe they may have missed a few anomolies.

Have faith in gravity, but heresy is fine also, i like the fact that the forum is "gravity only" but it does sometimes present us with lack of "new" information. Maybe we should have an alternative category or a gravity assisisted by ..... category. It seems the flip side is the over diluted and over advertised forum over at OU. JMHO


Crazy Dave

[bluesgtr44]

I believe that gravity may not have been the driving force.
This is why no one has yet to been able replicate the performance of a Bessler wheel using gravity.
Maybe everyone is looking in the wrong place.

I have been looking elsewhere lately and have had several ideas that employ "Barometric pressure"
A steady 14 psi is all around us ,we live in it. So for me it's worthy of serious investigation.

Graham

Hello there, old friend! Nice to hear from you and yet another interesting tid bit to go with it. That is another constant pressure situation that can be looked into. Have a Merry Christmas all here at B/W. Hope to hear more from ya this coming year.


Steve

[graham]

Nice post Crazy Dave, you made good points.

One thing we do know about JB is that as an organ builder he was very familiar with air pressures and vacuums He knew his air and how to control it to his liking:)

Graham

[graham]

Merry Christmas Steve ,this is just like the old days.

Also A Merry Christmas to all the 'OLD TIMERS" who are still alive, and all you new blokes eager and chaffing at the bit to be the next Bessler.

Graham

[Trevor Lyn Whatford]

Hi, Graham,

Good point, perhaps I should of said understood the options of the first stage.

Edit, I am a Heretic that was shown the light of truth while there are many here that would have me burnt at the stake, it is these people that treat the energy laws as the 10 commandments not knowing the truth, well the truth is there for those who look for it!

Edit, it would seem there are heretics on both sides!

Hi Trevor,you suggest:

do not jump to the next stage until all option of the first stage have been explored.

.

How will we know when all gravity options have been explored??

So far it's been about 300 yrs with no replication of what might be a Bessler wheel. For all I know, we might after the course of these centuries be at that point where all options have indeed been explored already and quiet frankly I believe we could well be.

I am well aware that to suggest anything other than gravity be explored is considered heresy by most in this group so I rarely post much anymore.

Graham

[rlortie]

A steady 14 psi is all around us ,we live in it. So for me it's worthy of serious investigation.

IMO the emphasis is in 'all around' or an ambient environment. It is gravity that is responsible for the 14 psi which can also be considered ambient.

Ralph

[AB Hammer]

Graham

I would say. To many of us who try this game, do the same things over and over and it becomes a new box for us to think out of. But without trying some of the same things, we won't understand what killed the wheels in the first place. Now a newer view can be thought of to try. It is funny that Bessler said something like, it is where we all have looked before, or was this his ploy to keep people from finding it? From my experiences up to date, tells me that Bessler was being honest about this.

Alan

[rocky]

Merry Christmas to all and Season Greetings.

Thank you John for the encouraging post. John Collins wrote:
“I have the updated version of the original book almost ready for publication but I don't want to release it because I feel that the solution is about to appear and I would like to include any new information relating to the new discovery.�

I was going to write John a private message but thought I would share this with all of you since I have gain so much insight by reading the forum discussions over the years. I have not posted much recently because I feel I have discovered Bessler’s secret. Of course I have thought this many times in the past but this time it is different. Several months ago I decided I will no longer make a physical build until I first make an accurate hardcopy scale drawing of the machine and do the math to see if it is out-of-balance at ALL degrees of rotation. I will not build it unless the math shows it will self-start from any rotation position. My current math and drawing design shows it is self-starting from any position. I believe it is Bessler’s Drashwitz machine.

My breakthrough came by doing word associations with clue keywords of adjectives, nouns and verbs. Putting them in common groups made the secret stand out. I have 277 source pages of Bessler and Witness clue sentences. From these sentences I have 1574 individual keyword clues. I have both a computer spreadsheet and large cork poster board where I arrange clues by subjects.

I have often told myself that “All The Clues Become Clear When You See The Working Machine�. I was not going to do a physical build unless EVERY clue could be explained in the mechanical design. I just finished going through all my clues adding a note as to what part of the machine it is describing. When I said that this time it was different, I meant that for the first time I now have an explanation for ALL of the text and graphic clues of what part of the machine they represent. This includes AP Little Book and last page drawing, the DT portraits, the MT drawings and the Toy Page.

I had to wait to start the physical build as I needed to order more Meccano parts; my machines are all made from the British metal construction set. My parts have arrived and I am now building the machine. If it does not work I will post photos and share all my clues. If it does work I will send John Collins a private message. I will not post the secret on the forum until my attorney gives me permission. I will contact John out of respect because I never would have found the secret without his translations of Bessler’s books.

Of course all of the above is just my opinion but I feel very strongly about it since I can explain all the clues. I could never do that before. And who among you can make that statement?
I feel like Bessler did about being careful about what he said or wrote because the design of the machine and the principle of how it works is very simple. It had to be to run at 50+ rpm.
It is so simple that I cannot comment about it without giving away the secret. The only difficult part of the design was the lock/unlock mechanism. I will share this…

This is Bessler’s clue that gives away the secret:
“This ratchet-wheel derives from the previous model, except that the tensioners are somewhat longer and have an additional special weight at the outer ends. From this drawing alone, however, nothing of the prime mover's source can be seen or deduced although the figure shows the overbalance superior weight.� MT15

And Bessler wrote:
“A single word could have betrayed my wondrous achievement.� AP 280
The single word is “ratchet�.

-Rocky, Christmas Eve 2010, a splendid time to share this information <><
“All the clues become clear when you see the working machine�
AP – Apologia Poetica (Formal Poetic Defense), Bessler, Germany 1716, John Collins/translated by Mike Senior 2005
DT – Das Triumphirende (The Triumphant Orffryrean Perpetual Motion), Bessler, Germany 1719, J. Collins/M. Senior 2005
MT – Maschinen Tractate (Treatise on Machines), Bessler, Germany 1722, J. Collins/translated by Andrew Witter, 2005

[John Collins]

Thanks for the private message Rocky, and also for your kind thoughts. I really hope you do have the answer and I wish you the very best of luck in building your working model. I await with bated breath the news that you have succeeed, but if it not, I know you won't give up but will learn from it and continue with the search - but my fingers are crossed for you!

JC

[graham]

Thanks for the lively discussion going on here .
Ralph you are correct that the 14 psi I mention is a manifestation of gravity. However it is the result of gravitys' effect on the mass of the atmosphere we exist in.

So this pressure may or may not be easier to manipulate than working directly with gravity to create an OOB situation .
An indirect approach if you will.

Like I said, I now have lots of ideas popping into my head .
I'll post them if it proves to show promise but I have to do a few experiments first.

Graham