The merry go round

[nicbordeaux]

In german it is 'karussel' if anyone wants to see if there is any historical documentation , i am not sure where to look for what they had in the eighteenth century , or even the late seventeenth century .
Does anyone know ?

http://www.carousels.com/mcb/mcb0502.php

[AB Hammer]

Thanks Nick

That is cool. Not to mention it runs down my ally. ;-)

Alan

[Grimer]

...
http://www.carousels.com/mcb/mcb0502.php

Fascinating to learn the origin of these things. Funny to think its a spin off from the armaments race.

[nicbordeaux]

Frank, hard to think of much of import which isn't a result of the primal urges : breed, eat. Both lead to territorial/alpha baboon behavior, thence warfare, thence the search for better ways of terminating others... or training/preparing to do so.

[Ealadha]

I was hoping someone could describe it.

Well basically you have the karussel '5' with the stick on the outer edge of it , see the stick at the top of '5' .
With the karussel rotating ,CF pulls the stick out , because CF is pulling the stick out radial to the axis of rotation it has to pull the karussel around also , and then pull the stick back in and let it pull out again .

[Alexioco]

Ealadha sounds interesting, why not build it and film it in action even without sound if you like just to show that you do indeed posses the principle of perpetual motion...

Alex

[path_finder]

Dear Ealadha,
IMHO what you are explaining has been described by Jacob Leupold in 1724 in his book intitled Theatri Machinarum Generale : Schau-Platz des Grundes mechanischer Wissenschafften
see here: plate 22, (Table XXII, fig 1), top first picture
http://digital.library.cornell.edu/cgi/ ... od022%3A33

For the fans of the mechanisms:
see the 'va-et-vient', fig 1 of the plate 25 (Tab XXV)
see the famous 'scissor', fig 1 & 2 of the plate 27 (Tab XXVII)
see the MT138 toys workers, fig 2 of the plate 33 (Tab XXXIII)
and even the 'horse behind the cart', fig 1 of the plate 36 (Tab XXXVI), and fig 1 of the plate 37 (Tab XXXVII)

Obviously all these points are a very old story.
I must recognize this (valid for myself also): 99% of the discussed principles in this forum are recooked dishes.

[nicbordeaux]

from path_finder: "99% of the ideas here are recooked dishes".

Yup, except I find no documented trace of anybody proposing to replace fossil fuels by OU washingup bowls filled with water. Even less washingup bowls filled with magnetic pingpong balls.

[Ealadha]

Dear Ealadha,
IMHO what you are explaining has been described by Jacob Leupold in 1724

No PathFinder i don't think so .

In the following drawing a karussel , its rotating clockwise , the arrow no . 1 shows the stick being pulled out by centrifugal force radially to the axis of rotation , as CF pulls the stick out , the stick pulls the karussel around as shown by arrow no . 2 .
There is nothing else to it , the stick is the mechanism , you pull the stick back in by hand if you are on the karussel .

[bluesgtr44]

Dear Ealadha,
IMHO what you are explaining has been described by Jacob Leupold in 1724 in his book intitled Theatri Machinarum Generale : Schau-Platz des Grundes mechanischer Wissenschafften
see here: plate 22, (Table XXII, fig 1), top first picture
http://digital.library.cornell.edu/cgi/ ... od022%3A33

For the fans of the mechanisms:
see the 'va-et-vient', fig 1 of the plate 25 (Tab XXV)
see the famous 'scissor', fig 1 & 2 of the plate 27 (Tab XXVII)
see the MT138 toys workers, fig 2 of the plate 33 (Tab XXXIII)
and even the 'horse behind the cart', fig 1 of the plate 36 (Tab XXXVI), and fig 1 of the plate 37 (Tab XXXVII)

Obviously all these points are a very old story.
I must recognize this (valid for myself also): 99% of the discussed principles in this forum are recooked dishes.

Welcome to the next level of madness, PF. These are some excerpts from Professor Christian Wolff about the wheel. He witnessed the Merseburg wheel...the first bi-directional wheel. This report was prepared for the Czar of Russia, Peter the Great......from AP, pg.114...J. Collins

"...Furthermore there is the testimony of the Landgrave of Hesse-Kassel, who is experienced in evaluating mechanical inventions and had seen the internal mechanism of the wheel and ran it for many weeks in a locked room, keeping the keys himself, having personally locked and sealed the doors and windows with his own seal. He testified both verbally and in an officially printed certificate that the movement of the wheel was caused by nothing more than the weights and this it would run continuously unless the internal structure of the wheel was altered."

And in this same letter, we can see that they were just starting to graze the effects of gravity......

"....But the force which drives the weights, does not come from the machine itself, rather it comes from some fluid, invisible matter by which the movement of the falling weights becomes faster and faster. Orffyreus whole invention consists of an artful arrangement of weights, in such a way that they are lifted when at rest and aquire force during their fall, and in my opinion it is this that he keeps secret. This is also consistent with what Orffyreus says, that anyone could easily understand his invention, as soon as he is allowed to look into the wheel."

What I get from this and other information, especially concerning Karl...is that there wasn't really a whole lot to this. Not that this would be an overall bad thing, but if it really had a chance of providing viable amounts of power/energy...I would think that the zest and zeal of this campaign by Karl would have been done long before. He had the finances to do this himself. His reputation was such that having seen the inside and really been impressed, he could have put together a consortium himself and not have to have put up the whole amount himself......he didn't! This is very telling in so many ways to me........it was that damn simple! He knew it couldn't be contained from the masses.


Steve

[rlortie]

Ealadha sounds interesting, why not build it and film it in action even without sound if you like just to show that you do indeed posses the principle of perpetual motion...

Ealadha; There is nothing else to it , the stick is the mechanism , you pull the stick back in by hand if you are on the karussel .

I believe that this is missing something to be considered the principle of PM.

I must agree however that the stick is pulling at a right angle to the axis as described by Bessler, CF is or will do the pulling until the stick becomes aligned with the axle.

Ralph

[Alexioco]

It does seem a very good idea because not just the weight is turning the wheel but also centrifugal force! What is puzzling me though is, in reality, would the stick via CF pull be pulling the wheel around OR would the wheel be pushing the stick out? I my bearing was attached I would of been able to make this very quickly...

Alex

[Ealadha]

Hello Alexioco , would the wheel be pushing the stick out or would CF be ?

The wheel would push the stick if the wheel was accelerating , however if it is spinning at a constant RPM and CF pulls the stick , the stick will pull the wheel around . The wheel accelerates as CF pulls the stick out , but if the stick is pushed by the wheel , that would be something else accelerating the wheel , like if you pushed the wheel by hand , that would also push the stick out . I am talking about a horizontal wheel here .

[Alexioco]

Ah a horizontal wheel! Didnt consider that. This alone cant be the complete thing though. Maybe a bettery could help? ;)

Alex

[Ealadha]

Well if you stood up the merry-go-round vertical , you could then try to power it using gravity as a power source .